Pathfinder 2E Backgrounds coming to PF2

Aldarc · May 14, 2018

Ancalagon said:
I guess no potter has ever become a hero...

Apart from Harry.

mellored · May 14, 2018

Yaarel said:
The lengthy ‘skill list’ is one of those things that makes you think you *cannot* do something because there is an entry for it, and you didnt invest in it.

It depends on how big the bonus is.

I mean, if you get +20 to pathfinder lore, then yea. It locks everyone out that doesn't have it.
If you get +2 to pathfinder lore, then anyone can still attmept it. You can have a huge list that each gives +2.

And, according to the other source, there's only untrained/trained/expert. So my guess is +0/+2/+5.

Edit: Nope. Looks like the spread between max skill and no skill is +17. Which is about the same as it is for 5e.

Yaarel · May 14, 2018

mellored said:
It depends on how big the bonus is.

I mean, if you get +20 to pathfinder lore, then yea. It locks everyone out that doesn't have it.
If you get +2 to pathfinder lore, then anyone can still attmept it. You can have a huge list that each gives +2.

And, according to the other source, there's only untrained/trained/expert. So my guess is +0/+2/+5.

P2 is going to add level (!) to all d20 rolls.

For training, your numbers +0, +2, +5 looks appealing to me.

What I would like to see is only four skills on the character sheet (and on the monster stat block).

Pick four skills that the character is especially known for. Pick which skill gets +5 − the one that most represents the character concept − and which three other skills get +2. All other skills are untrained.

So a glance at the four skills on the sheet, gives a good idea about what the character is about.

In terms of numbers: d20 + level + ability + training

A level 10 character with the relevant ability at +3 has:

Expert: d20 + 10 + 3 + 5 = d20 + 18
Trained: d20 + 10 + 3 + 2 = d20 + 15
Untrained: d20 + 10 + 3 + 0 = d20 + 13

The 18 is special. The difference between 15 and 13, means any character has a chance of succeeding in any skill.

Reducing the skill list to the four favorites, expresses the flavor of the character, emphasizes what the character is especially good at thus encourages teamwork, allows players to think creatively and optimistically in all skill checks beyond these four.

mellored · May 14, 2018

Yaarel said:
P2 is going to add level (!) to all d20 rolls.

I do like the idea of adding a + to everything as you level. A level 20 wizard should be able to pick locks better than a level 1 wizard.

But, I would reduce it to +1/2 level. So a level 20 wizard wouldn't be able to hit things better than a level 1 fighter.

Parmandur · May 14, 2018

I believe it is five step scale for Proficiency, from -1 to 3, plus Level, plus Ability mod, plus a little of this, minus a little of that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...

Yaarel · May 14, 2018

Parmandur said:
I believe it is five step scale for Proficiency, from -1 to 3, plus Level, plus Ability mod, plus a little of this, minus a little of that, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...

When does someone have a −1 training?

mellored · May 14, 2018

Yaarel said:
When does someone have a −1 training?

Found it.

Untrained = -2
Trained = 0
Expert = +1
Master = +2
Legendary = +3

More or less in line with my guess of +0/2/5.

The bigger thing seems to be that each step gives you access to some special feat(ures).
Like take-10 on tasks, evasion (no damage from fireballs), and legendary gives you supernatural abilities.

All in all, it's more proficiency-as-feats rather than just +number.

Yaarel · May 14, 2018

mellored said:
Found it.

Untrained = -2
Trained = 0
Expert = +1
Master = +2
Legendary = +3

More or less in line with my guess of +0/2/5.

The bigger thing seems to be that each step gives you access to some special feat(ures).
Like take-10 on tasks, evasion (no damage from fireballs), and legendary gives you supernatural abilities.

All in all, it's more proficiency-as-feats rather than just +number.

I am less enthusiastic about negative modifiers.

I prefer,

Untrained: +0
Trained: +2
Expert: +3
Master: +4
Legendary: +5

Tony Vargas · May 14, 2018

Sorry to pull this grognard silliness, but:

Backgrounds have been around a really long time, really they have. In 1e, you got a random 'secondary skill' that reflected your pre-adventuring life, maybe you were a bowyer/fletcher or a fisherman or something. In 2e, you got Kits that appended thematic or cultural bits to your class. In 3e, you could devote some of your precious ranks to a craft or profession, reflecting your non-adventuring skills. 4e tossed those skills and added back something a bit like a Kit, called a 'Background,' then something a bit more like a Kit called a 'Theme.' 5e dropped themes, but kept backgrounds. Now that they can be stolen from 5e D&D instead of 4e D&D, I guess it's OK for PF to use that label for the idea.

Or you could just randomly roll your secondary skill.

houser2112 · May 15, 2018

shidaku said:
I already use backgrounds for power-gaming in 5E. This isn't new.

Long story short: If any element of the game grants any mechanical bonus, it will be used power game.

This. Skill proficiency is about the only thing that I use to consider what background to take in 5E; flavor is not a consideration for me. I can't believe it needs to be said in the first place, but I'll second "If any element of the game grants any mechanical bonus, it will be used power game.".