Star Wars, Star Trek, and Gaming

Star Trek is thematically about exploration (not neccessarily literal space exploration, but exploration of themes, morals and ethical questions and so on). I feel that doesn't really lend itself that well to typical Roleplaying Games, because stories like that are usually very... constructed and only work if everyone behaves according to script.
You can of course forget about this aspect and still play some rogue xeno-archeologist, a Ferengi businessman, a former Bajoran resistance fighter and a Breen outlaw and fly through space to do adventures, but it doesn't really feel like that is what I'd associate with Star Trek. And once you become part of a starship crew, things feel more constrained. Traditional villains are rare, violence as conflict resolution is rare.


Star Wars really seems to have room for an intrepid group of adventurers that carve out their own place in the universe. It's based on fantasy type heroic journeys, from being a lowly moisture farmer to the most powerful (well, only) Jedi in the galaxy, from a rag tag group of rebels to the ones toppling the rule of the evil Empire.


I really prefer Star Trek over Star Wars, but I think Star Wars just is the nicer setting.

Mustrum_Ridcully said:

Star Trek is thematically about exploration (not neccessarily literal space exploration, but exploration of themes, morals and ethical questions and so on). I feel that doesn't really lend itself that well to typical Roleplaying Games, because stories like that are usually very... constructed and only work if everyone behaves according to script.

Click to expand...

It can work quite well with good players and a decent GM. I play in an online game (streamed live on Twitch and archived on YouTube) and it's a lot of fun.
But you do need more world buy-in from the players, as they can't be traditional murderhobos or the traditional free rein to do anything they want.

Most D+D adventures can be summed up as a small band of adventurers traveling across the countryside to fight against a Big Bad Evil Guy. They save the world by killing dudes and taking their stuff. At the end of the adventure, the characters are more powerful than they started.

Most Star Wars movies can be summed up as a small band of rebels traveling across space to fight against a Big Bad Emperor Guy. They save the galaxy by killing Imperials and blowing up their stuff. At the end of each trilogy, the main characters are all more powerful than they started.

Most Star Trek episodes can be summed up as the Big Good Federation Guys arriving at one location in order to solve the problems of a small colony. They save the settlement by using science and rhetoric, and lose if anyone dies or gets blown up. At the beginning of each episode, every character is reverted back to their starting point.

Mustrum_Ridcully said:

Star Trek is thematically about exploration (not neccessarily literal space exploration, but exploration of themes, morals and ethical questions and so on). I feel that doesn't really lend itself that well to typical Roleplaying Games, because stories like that are usually very... constructed and only work if everyone behaves according to script.

Click to expand...

Oh, these things are easy to do in an RPG.

The way to explore themes of morals and ethical questions is to merely put the PCs in situations where they have to make choices on moral and ethical issues. You, as GM, don't get to *control* what the resulting statement is, like the author of a Trek episode would, but the subject would get explored.

How do I know this? I run the aforementioned Ashen Stars, which has this explicitly as something the game is designed to accomplish, and while you can play it as a high action, low quandary game, their GMing advice steers to the exploration of such themes.

Umbran said:

How do I know this? I run the aforementioned Ashen Stars, which has this explicitly as something the game is designed to accomplish, and while you can play it as a high action, low quandary game, their GMing advice steers to the exploration of such themes.

Click to expand...

Yep, 'Ashen Stars' is definitely my 'Star Trek' RPG system of choice

Deset Gled said:

At the beginning of each episode {of Star Trek}, every character is reverted back to their starting point.

Click to expand...

Almost. The relationship between McCoy and Spock changes over time. McCoy began with sharper barbs and references Spock's "inhuman" side more. This notably changes after the Tholian Web episode, where they watch Kirk's "in event of my death" video; he tells them both that he needs both of them to be the best he (Kirk) can be - and why. After that, McCoy lays off the nasty-grams and Spock develops a better sense of irony.

Mustrum_Ridcully said:

Star Trek is thematically about exploration (not neccessarily literal space exploration, but exploration of themes, morals and ethical questions and so on). I feel that doesn't really lend itself that well to typical Roleplaying Games, because stories like that are usually very... constructed and only work if everyone behaves according to script.

Click to expand...

This, I think, is the critical issue. Obviously, you can write a traditional rpg that has Trek's trappings, but it just won't re-create anything like the episodes. (Secondarily, rpg-style advancement is unusual in Trek. Only a few characters really go through any.)

I do think there is room maybe for a non-traditional game, like Fiasco. That recognizes and utilizes that sort of structure up front. In fact, I think there's a lot of (particularly TV) genres that would fit that kind of framework better than a traditional rpg.

Ratskinner said:

This, I think, is the critical issue. Obviously, you can write a traditional rpg that has Trek's trappings, but it just won't re-create anything like the episodes.

Click to expand...

Oh? I think that needs to be unpacked a bit. What, exactly, from episodes can't be re-created at an RPG table?

I ask because in my Ashen Stars game, in the last adventure I knowingly and blatantly ripped off the plot of ST:TNG, Season 2, Episode 4: "The Outrageous Okana". My players, not being as into Trek as I, didn't get the reference, but it played out almost exactly like the episode. I would like to know how I managed that, if it cannot be done.

(Secondarily, rpg-style advancement is unusual in Trek. Only a few characters really go through any.)

Click to expand...

What do you mean by "RPG-style advancement"? Many (perhaps most) games don't have the meteoric rise in power seen in D&D. If the GM is scaling challenges to PC ability, the result may be largely invisible when rendered in narrative form.

Ratskinner said:

This, I think, is the critical issue. Obviously, you can write a traditional rpg that has Trek's trappings, but it just won't re-create anything like the episodes. (Secondarily, rpg-style advancement is unusual in Trek. Only a few characters really go through any.)

I do think there is room maybe for a non-traditional game, like Fiasco. That recognizes and utilizes that sort of structure up front. In fact, I think there's a lot of (particularly TV) genres that would fit that kind of framework better than a traditional rpg.

Click to expand...

You can't do it as easily with D&D. But D&D isn't the only RPG out there.
RPGs without formal levels work best. Like the current Star Trek Adventures game or even something like Dread. Or a skill based game, like Call of Cthulhu where experienced characters are better at their field.

As far as plot, that's just a matter of setting up the tone of the episode.
For the ones when they science! a solution, that is harder. But all it requires is figuring out the mystery and making enough checks or spending enough storypoints to technobabble a solution.
For other episodes that are solved by clever plans and out thinking the enemies, an RPG will work just fine.

Umbran said:

Oh? I think that needs to be unpacked a bit. What, exactly, from episodes can't be re-created at an RPG table?

I ask because in my Ashen Stars game, in the last adventure I knowingly and blatantly ripped off the plot of ST:TNG, Season 2, Episode 4: "The Outrageous Okana". My players, not being as into Trek as I, didn't get the reference, but it played out almost exactly like the episode. I would like to know how I managed that, if it cannot be done.

Click to expand...

I didn't say it couldn't be done, I said a traditional rpg system wouldn't do it.

From here, it sound like your players ("knowingly and blatantly") did the work, not the system. If you're players are all in, then the system isn't as relevant. Which is fine. (Although, certainly, some systems can put up a bigger fight than others.) We've seen people doing things like that with all sorts of traditional systems for years...usually by fudging rolls or making increasingly weird house rules. For example, most traditional rpgs have all sorts of problems with recurring enemies.

I would also say that I'm not 100% sure how I categorize Gumshoe games wrt being a traditional rpg. (I'm also not familiar with Ashen Stars, in specific, but have Night's Black Agents and a few others.) The investigative portions and the fairly procedural GMing instructions in the Gumshoe games that I have seem fairly untraditional to my eyes, but the "action" portions seem to go more traditionally. So what is that? Demi-Traditional?

Is there something about Ashen Stars that extends the Gumshoe model to specifically create they kind of player buy-in necessary for some of those ST plots, or that obviates it? I have definitely not witnessed anything similar in the Gumshoe sessions that I've run, but I wouldn't be surprised if the basic Gumshoe mechanics could be extended that way. This conversation has already piqued my interest in the game.

Umbran said:

What do you mean by "RPG-style advancement"? Many (perhaps most) games don't have the meteoric rise in power seen in D&D. If the GM is scaling challenges to PC ability, the result may be largely invisible when rendered in narrative form.

Click to expand...

In this case, I'm talking about the semi-regular increases in character ability vs. the opposition. Most of the Star Trek "PCs" do not seem to accumulate loot, they don't even seem to consistently remember their innovations and discoveries from one episode to the next, although DS9 dabbled in it and Voyager and Enterprise seemed to work it into the show's premise a bit more with plotlines that actually extended across multiple episodes and seasons. The movies don't seem to engage in it, and I haven't seen Discovery.

Nor does it seem to me that the challenges particularly escalate to compensate for any subtle character improvements. If anything, the reverse happens. The Borg, for example, first show up as an absolutely monstrous threat, but the more we are exposed to them, the more "normal" they become. They gain a "queen", they become vulnerable to "infections" of various sorts, including "individuality"! Their amazing technological adaptability turns out to not be such a bad thing, despite its first appearances.

Not that the characters don't advance or improve ever, but when they do its usually a dramatic "thing" not just taking you mid-season level-up. Most of this is just a side-effect of writing for TV shows, AFAICT. However, I contrast it with a show like Grimm (US urban fantasy) and those characters sure do seem to "level up" fairly regularly and as a direct consequence of interacting with the supernatural....and in the process, they keep revealing new supernatural threats that keep pace with their new capacities while taming older ones. Grimm, to me, seems very much more traditional rpg-style advancement oriented.