So Primus might be more akin to the Lady of Pain, an Overgod.
Is Primus a Great God or Overgod in 5e?
So Primus might be more akin to the Lady of Pain, an Overgod.
hawkeyefan
Legend
I guess? Is that what she’s considered?
As you can probably tell, those designations don’t matter all that much to me, so I don’t know which deities and beings are which rank.
Has 5E actually established these kinds of ranks again? I don’t know off the top of my head.
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Sunseeker
Guest
That's assuming all the gods are in the same pantheon. Zeus is at the top of the Pantheon because he says so, and the other gods (except maybe Hades, Chronos and a select few others) all acknowledge and accept this. The followers follow this pattern.
That's ALSO assuming that the gods in question exist as a pantheon. Some IRL systems are less structured. Others show more flexibility. Others contain more equality. IE: the moon and the sun are equal gods. And that also largely depends on how you read the mythos. One thing I think D&D does horribly in terms of religion is make everything so clear-cut. From a follower viewpoint, religions are rarely as clear-cut and mechanical as D&D makes them out to be.
And that also says nothing about competing pantheons. Is Ra superior to Zeus? Odin to Pelor? Your assertion also doesn't help for dualistic religions, such as Bahamut and Tiamat. Even if we accept that Io is above both and there are also lesser dragon-gods, neither the followers of Bahamut nor the followers of Tiamat are going to agree that their gods are "equal".
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Elderbrain
Guest
Primus is kind of a special case. While he was mentioned among the beings that might count as gods in the Planescape book On Hallowed Ground, and is stated to have godlike power, he can be (and has been) killed and also doesn't have any Clerics per se. On the other hand, neither do the three gods of magic in Dragonlance, and they're still gods. I personally would stat him up as if he were a lesser god, since he does empower his hierarch Modrons with Clerical spell abilities (at least he did in prior editions), such as the ability to heal other Modrons.
(Side note: Overpowers such as Ao from Toril and High God from Krynn also don't choose to have Clerics - in fact, they might even have the power to DENY Clerical powers to those attempting to gain them from their faith, since Ao gained some freverent worshipers after his existence was revealed during the Time of Troubles, yet none got Clerical powers despite their faith in him.)
(Side note: Overpowers such as Ao from Toril and High God from Krynn also don't choose to have Clerics - in fact, they might even have the power to DENY Clerical powers to those attempting to gain them from their faith, since Ao gained some freverent worshipers after his existence was revealed during the Time of Troubles, yet none got Clerical powers despite their faith in him.)
Mercule
Adventurer
Newsletter, etc.
Mercule
Adventurer
I had a conversation with someone who explained Enochian magic to me as, essentially, a way to use assembly to tweak the OS of the universe. I'm not sure how accurate of a depiction that is (I haven't found looking through the writings on the topic worth the effort -- too much absinthe or something), but your comment took me back to that conversation. Combining the two ideas, it doesn't take long to end up with modrons (not just inevitables) as a sort of D&D version of M:tA paradox.
I guess it also makes slaadi one heck of a nasty memory leak.
Did he die or was it his avatar in 5e terms, with him transforming one of his secondeous into a new Primus Avatar, just food for thought.
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Elderbrain
Guest
He died - Primus apparently doesn't have avatars, he only has one body and if you kill it, he's dead... however, he would be replaced by one of his Secondus, which is what happened after Orcus/Tenebrous left Mechanus, having gained all the knowledge he could by taking Primus's place. (Orcus killed Primus and assumed the role of Primus for a time, in order to find his missing Wand. The Modron hierarchy was unaware of this fact until he left.)
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Elderbrain
Guest
Divine ranks mattered directly to PC and NPC Clerics because in prior editions (i.e. 2nd) a deity's rank determined what the maximum spell level it could grant to Clerics - don't have my book in front of me, but it went something like Demigods could only grant up to 5th level, Lesser 6th level, and Intermediate and Greater gods 7th level (7th level at the time being the highest level spells for Clerics). So it mattered game-mechanically what the rank of the god your PC Cleric worshiped was.
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