Is Primus a Great God or Overgod in 5e?
CAFRedblade
Explorer
So, going back to Primus, I'm sure he has an opposite number, bringer of chaos, tempter of Rogue modrons, perhaps named Unicron...
Man, the is dark.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Hiya!
Ok, and this is good I guess? Or bad? I'd put it more towards "bad" because I like the whole "evil" idea of everyone and everything having responsibility for it's own actions. This includes all gods. I also go by the general standards of it1e AD&D, where is was technically possible to kill Zeus, it was so far off the realm of likely as to make it virtually impossible. And besides...we can read stories about heroes slaying gods. Not every day, but they are there. It makes for a really epic ending to a group of PC's adventuring days that's for sure! Hell, one of my characters (with, iirc, 7 other PC's and Henchmen) killed Lolth in the Abyss at the end of Q1 waaaaay back in the day. She was a Demigod, sure, but she just about killed all of us. Most of us were in single-digit or teens for HP's when she finally fell. One of the most adrenaline pumping combats I've ever had. In fact, after that adventure...we all retired. It was a great 'ending' for those characters story. After that, for a good 12 to 15 years (real time, not game time), the Drow were more disorganized than usual and they pretty much all disappeared from harassing the surface world. When a group of PC's actions can have that drastic an effect on a campaign, that's pretty special if you ask me.
Anyway, I never liked the "gods never die" concept for my Fantasy games. When a god can die from mortals, it helps keep them in check a bit...at least in my mind.Of course, YMMV.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
I don't mind gods being able to be killed by other gods, so even in 5e I'd allow greater gods to be killed by another greater god. As for mortals killing gods, it should be impossible without some sort of divine aid, either from another god, some power equal in power to a god, an artifact/relic, or a prophecy. I'm sure there are other reasons I would accept if I thought a bit more about it. My point is that gods are not the next encounter to be killed by a band of PCs that wander upon it. Allowing PCs to just go god hunting reduces them from gods, to just another Monster Manual type creature.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
pming
Legend
Hiya!
I don't see any difference between "You can't kill a god" and "Nobody goes god hunting because, well, you'll die". Functionally equivalent. If your players dream of going "god hunting" when they get to high level, the problem isn't with gods being killable...it's that your players are contemplating the attempt in the first place. In other words, the PC's are OP'ed.
We never had a problem with gods being killable (I know, anecdotal, but isn't just about everything when discussing RPG experiences?). I have under my belt three DM's that I have successfully de-programmed (?) from thinking that gods are "easy to kill...because their stats are right there in the DDG". I asked simple questions of them, and they generally answered as I expected them to...ignorantly. So I said I'd run a 'fight' between a god and the DM + Players PC's only using the rules. I'd also point out that the PC's were very much 'Monty Haul Campaign' type characters. As in level 25, or 35, with gold dragons for steeds, multiple artifacts hanging on their belts, etc. Back in 'the day' (1e), it was pretty obvious as to who was running or playing in a Monty Haul game...ridiculous numbers on the sheets, but with virtually zero actual Player skill. Anyway, for the battles, the god won in each instance. At the end of the battle (which was fairly short on all three, really). They all, DM and Players, said they never knew how tough a god could be. The DM's (and Players) were all using the 'stat block' as pretty much it. They weren't using all the other things a god gets based on it's rank (Demi, Lesser, Greater).
My point is that it is, and should (imho), be possible to kill a god in a "D&D" game. The likelihood should be extremely low...like single digit percentage if that. Gods have so much to draw on, and so much raw power to command that a group or mortals had better be thinking of the encounter not as "We're gonna kill a god! We'll be legends!", and more of a "We get to be killed by a god! We'll be legends!". Both lofty goals, but the later is much more likely.
That said, I think in some other non-D&D Fantasy games gods should be pretty much "just a name", with no possibility of being slain by a mortal, even a group, hell, even an army (Warhammer Fantasy comes to mind of a game where it is 'impossible' for mortals to kill gods, imho). Most campaigns go by the "gods can't be killed" mantra. But for a D&D game...I have no problem with gods being 'killable'. Then again, with regards to 5e, nobody in my campaign has gotten a character past 7th level, so all the gods can rest easy I guess.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
I don't see any difference between "You can't kill a god" and "Nobody goes god hunting because, well, you'll die". Functionally equivalent. If your players dream of going "god hunting" when they get to high level, the problem isn't with gods being killable...it's that your players are contemplating the attempt in the first place. In other words, the PC's are OP'ed.
We never had a problem with gods being killable (I know, anecdotal, but isn't just about everything when discussing RPG experiences?). I have under my belt three DM's that I have successfully de-programmed (?) from thinking that gods are "easy to kill...because their stats are right there in the DDG". I asked simple questions of them, and they generally answered as I expected them to...ignorantly. So I said I'd run a 'fight' between a god and the DM + Players PC's only using the rules. I'd also point out that the PC's were very much 'Monty Haul Campaign' type characters. As in level 25, or 35, with gold dragons for steeds, multiple artifacts hanging on their belts, etc. Back in 'the day' (1e), it was pretty obvious as to who was running or playing in a Monty Haul game...ridiculous numbers on the sheets, but with virtually zero actual Player skill. Anyway, for the battles, the god won in each instance. At the end of the battle (which was fairly short on all three, really). They all, DM and Players, said they never knew how tough a god could be. The DM's (and Players) were all using the 'stat block' as pretty much it. They weren't using all the other things a god gets based on it's rank (Demi, Lesser, Greater).
My point is that it is, and should (imho), be possible to kill a god in a "D&D" game. The likelihood should be extremely low...like single digit percentage if that. Gods have so much to draw on, and so much raw power to command that a group or mortals had better be thinking of the encounter not as "We're gonna kill a god! We'll be legends!", and more of a "We get to be killed by a god! We'll be legends!". Both lofty goals, but the later is much more likely.
That said, I think in some other non-D&D Fantasy games gods should be pretty much "just a name", with no possibility of being slain by a mortal, even a group, hell, even an army (Warhammer Fantasy comes to mind of a game where it is 'impossible' for mortals to kill gods, imho). Most campaigns go by the "gods can't be killed" mantra. But for a D&D game...I have no problem with gods being 'killable'. Then again, with regards to 5e, nobody in my campaign has gotten a character past 7th level, so all the gods can rest easy I guess.
^_^
Paul L. Ming
Not if it's AL. I want Primus to be AL legal deity, he's got the power for it.
Well, then what we say here isn't meaningful, is it? You'd need an official statement from the Adventurer's League, no?
I, personally, like the idea of Primus and the Modrons* to be outside the framework of mortal worship. But, to each their own.
That opinion added largely so I can get the footnote in....
*Band name!
hawkeyefan
Legend
I’m very partial to how Planescape termed all the gods and similay powerful beings as “Powers”. It’s a nice term that doesn’t carry the typical connotation that a term like “god” does. And it’s broad enough to use for all such beings...so that greater deity, intermediate deity, and the like don’t really matter.
Sure, in game terms maybe those designations may mean something to some games at some point....but to the characters in the world, they just seem odd.
Sure, in game terms maybe those designations may mean something to some games at some point....but to the characters in the world, they just seem odd.
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