Do you believe we are alone in the universe?

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about...

The universe is far, far, far too big and ancient a place to reasonably rule out life elsewhere. Even if the galaxy is currently lacking intelligent life other than our own (and I'm not convinced it is - our expectations of what intelligent life should be doing with itself is, obviously, prejudiced toward our own ideals), I don't think it was nor will be. I'm also much more optimistic about FTL. :)
 

A lot of believing it exists but that we will never encounter. I have seen strange things in the sky. I wouldn't disclaim too quickly.
 

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MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
With respect, the thing that is currently endangering us is not our intelligence, but our lack thereof. Our current predicament is based in emotional responses, not reasoned and intelligent responses.

Granted, but some of it is lack of empathy and excessive pride borne out of overestimating one's own intelligence...

Oh top of those each using tools, some exhibit the ability to make their own tools. Showing even greater capacity for cognitive thought, when problem solving. We are not the lone intelligence on this planet. We may be the most wide-spread and destructive however.

Being intelligent does not mean the tendencies that we have to ever try and expand our knowledge is shared. We could be looking for other peoples out there, and find that a simple life with nature is more to their liking than shaping their planet as we have.

I don't know whether we will meet other inhabitants of our galaxy or universe or not. However, I am pretty certain just given the expanse that we cannot even observe, there are other minds out there wondering the same as us. Are we alone?

Maybe they are out there, because we don't even know the size of the cosmos beyond our local bubble. But as far as our bubble goes -for all purposes the whole universe as anything outside might as well not be there- I believe we are indeed alone.


A lot of believing it exists but that we will never encounter. I have seen strange things in the sky. I wouldn't disclaim too quickly.

These are easy, whatever isn't a misunderstood natural phenomenon or a human-made object is a witch, a spirit or a witch fighting a spirit...
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
These are easy, whatever isn't a misunderstood natural phenomenon or a human-made object is a witch, a spirit or a witch fighting a spirit...

It’s a common fallacy known as “god of the gaps”. Better explained as “if I can’t explain it, it must be magic”.
 



MoonSong

Rules-lawyering drama queen but not a munchkin
It’s a common fallacy known as “god of the gaps”. Better explained as “if I can’t explain it, it must be magic”.

I'm coming more from "this 'rational' explanation needs the violation of so many fundamental physical laws and common sense that is no different from the emotional and irrational one." Anyway I don't think of myself as rational anyway so it makes more sense to me. There's no practical way for alien visitors to exist, not without violating the lightspeed limit and reversing entropy. Nothing short of actual magic can change that, and in real life magic is too pathetic, dangerous and difficult to allow it. So whatever it is that we see in the skies is anything but alien in nature.
 


Aeson

I learned nerd for this.
A man of straw pushed me down a slippery slope into the gap of the gods At the bottom I landed on Occam's razor where I met a single Scotsmen named Godwin.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
"Slippery Slope" is also a logical fallacy, just like the God of the Gaps. :)

Sigh. It's an informal fallacy, which means it's not automatically wrong, but is instead an argument that doesn't support the conclusion. A true fallacy is an argument that invalidates the conclusion while an informal fallacy doesn't say whether or not the conclusion is wrong, just that the argument used doesn't support it.

And slippery slope is one of those 'maybe' informal fallacies. It really depends on the form of the argument. If I say that if A happens, and then explore a solid causal chain that leads to B possibly happening, that's not an informal fallacy. If I instead say that if A happens then this tangentially related and more extreme event B will happen, that's a slippery slope fallacy (informal).

I really do wish people would stop name checking the informal fallacies as if doing so was actually an argument. If you can't articulate the weakness of another's argument without reference to a named fallacy, you shouldn't be using the fallacy.

Further, the God of the Gaps is actually a theological argument that dismisses the argument that God requires gaps to exist, not an argument that God exists in the gaps, which it's widely mistaken for. As you seem to have, given your usage above.

Again, if people would actually articulate where they see flaws in other's arguments rather than throw out buzzword fallacies, discussions would be better. And I say this as a recovering named fallacy-thrower.
 

Ovinomancer

No flips for you!
On topic, there's another theory of why we haven't seen evidence of aliens, and it's been lurking around the edges of this discussion a couple of times.

Life is competitive, and, at any given level of technology, the universe is finite to the user of that technology. Hence, available resources are finite for any given level of technology (effectively speaking). Why, then, do we assume that any other intelligent life is willing to share, especially if the rate of technology progress is not uniform of doesn't have discontinuities. Let me explain that last -- our technological expansion from muscle power to atomic power was, at first, extremely slow (we used muscle power for the vast history of our species, with slow progress in technological improvement). The Chinese developed technologies that were crucial to the technological boom (gunpowder and the printing press) but did nothing with them for centuries. Then, suddenly, we exploded. We may stall again, possibly soon. There may be points ahead where we cannot see past where we are (light as an unbreachable speed limit could be reality or just a roadblock we're not seeing around -- we can't say). A different species may have a different experience with technology altogether, and realizing this we cannot assume that any alien species we find will not suddenly leapfrog past us in technology.

So, to recap, other species are direct competitors for a finite resource pool. They may also realize that technological capability can be in fits and starts, and a given alien race may rapidly surpass their ability to compete. Finally, intelligence is, by far, most commonly developed in predator species (or omnivore species) here on Earth. That may hold elsewhere. All of this means that the best survival tactic for aliens is to not advertise their position to possibly more powerful competitors.

Add to the above the lack of communication that is likely. Completely different anatomies along with different cultural and social structures means that communication with an alien species is likely to be very difficult. Misunderstandings are likely. But, most importantly, there's a trust factor. Can you trust the alien, who may suddenly and quickly surpass your ability to defend yourself? See any number of uncontacted tribes on Earth for examples of this. In this low trust environment, staying quiet and striking first and hard are rational approaches. We may actually be in a reasonably populated region of the galaxy, but all of our neighbors are survivalist loners who plan to shoot claimjumpers and never ask questions.

Now, I'm not sure I buy the above. But, I can't discount the possibility, either. Nor can I claim credit for it -- that goes to Liu Cixen and his novels Three Body Problem and The Dark Forest. The above is developed and fleshed out in the latter. It's an interesting possibility. I do think it does a better job than usual at attempting an original solve to the Drake equation with a reasonable set of inferences. I also like that it addresses the unfounded optimism many display at the idea of friendly aliens. Basic interaction among humans should depose that idea. Also, the stark statements that technological advancement isn't guaranteed and can stagnate despite best efforts. If there's a key understanding that we lack, we will not be able to move past it. Nor may other intelligences.
 

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