How do you envision bards?

Bards will never do well enough in combat to compare with rogues or fighter types. At least not directly.

In one of our D&D groups, we have a halfing rogue/bard. When it comes to combat, he just takes his "Heralds trumpet", and grants us the +2 attack / +2 damage bonus.
(But I know why the player does it this way. He is our tactical expert, and I believe he is bothered about our "incompetence", and forces us to train this weakness. Our last Torg session once again proofed our great need for it. Anyway, I believe he as great fun with it. It is great to play a character that is not always about combat and tacicts...)

I still disagree

Mustrum_Ridcully said:

Bards will never do well enough in combat to compare with rogues or fighter types. At least not directly.
Anyway, I believe he as great fun with it. It is great to play a character that is not always about combat and tacicts...)

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I don't know how you handle your bards or rogues... but with just a few simple multiclassed levels and good spells, a bard can easily rock in combat. He may not be as good as a fighter but the group where I played in finally got the impression, my guy inflicts more damage than our fighter plus the wizard. That's not true, but I've saved their butts often enough. By using tricks and tactics a rogue wouldn't have been able to use.

I loved the Earthdawn Trobadour... the important was the information... legends and lore. In earthdawn Trobadours had real power in a World were legend made real many things. Heroes without heroic tales would always be minor adventurers !

This master of all knowledge is a little lacking in D&D.

I agree with sepulchrave in that Bards should be a prestige class.

I also echo mmadsen in that I think Bards are really trying to be two classes at once (jack of all trades and morale officer). The jack persona could stand on its own with the addition of a few more bennies, but the morale officer's persona is best suited as a prestige class with its specialized skills and focus on the Perform skill.

The Barbarian suffers from the same split-personality syndrome: he is both a savage/wilderness warrior and a berserker. IMO, moving some of the wilderness bits to Ranger will help that class and purify the B-class (which I'd rename to Berserker) at the same time.