The Stigma of D&D OR Help! I'm Stuck in the D&D Closet?

Which way do you prefer to explain this passion to your friends.

Option A: "It's a fantasy game. Like a video game, but with dice. Think Lord of the Rings."

Option B: "I play Dungeons and Dragons. Stop laughing. No, seriously. I know all those weird kids played it in high school, but... Vin Deisel plays it, I swear! C'mon man, it's fun and cool and..."

And yes, I was a weird kid in high school, but I've grown up. One of the things I've learned is this:

Dungeons and Dragons has a stigma.

The name has a stigma. People hear those two words and run from the room fearing social castration. (slight exaggeration mode ended)

Just tonight, while working at my coffee shop, employee A told employee B that some people wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons with him.

Employee B quickly said he was busy, that he didn't know how to play, ANYTHING but the dreaded D&D.

And it wasn't just the way Employee B responded, it was how Employee A first spoke. It was like, "I know you're gonna say no." Wait. More like, "If you say yes I'll die from laughter."

Go ahead. Say my coworkers are ignorant. Are superficial. Are too cool for their own good. But they're my friends. And they're a fun. And they're smart, mature people. And they wouldn't be caught dead playing D and D. And they would probably be shocked if they found out I did.

I hide my books when I bring girls home to my place for the first time. Look, you can say whatever you want, but a girl looks on my desk and realizes this 23 year old owns a "Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Masters Guide," and she's gonna have second thoughts. I think in horror of the time when I forgot and had to explain.

"Well, see I'm thinking of doing video game design, and, and... Why are you putting your shirt back on..."

This was a half-lie I had prepared just in case I had ever forgotten to put my books away. The half-lies are always more believable and easier to pull off.

So here I am, in the Roleplaying Closet, waiting for the day when coming out will be acceptable.

Wizards, give yourself a little help here. Just make a D20 Fantasy. In our society, "cool" is oftentimes a measure of marketing success. If a product is cool, you're usually getting a lot of people to buy it, and it's usually making a lot of money. Your marketing department must've called Vin Deisel and thanked him personally for even muttering the words Dungeons and Dragons.

"Vin, we have a great role for you as a half-orc barbarian in a Dungeons and Dragons sequal. What's that? The first movie sucked? The first movie was great! It just came out at the same time as Lord of the Rings and that's why no one saw it. It did have Jeremy Irons. And that Waynes kid. No, the other one."

The movie also had a big dude wearing purple lip stick. Ridiculous.

The problem with DandD also comes through in the rules. Characters actions explained by alignment. I'm rarely fulfilled when I am told I was attacked because my character was good and the other guy was evil. Over the top magic. A mid-level magic user has more ridiculous abilities than almost any comic book hero. The huge monster list gets to me too. There's skeletons and dragons and sphinxes and genies - did we forget anything? Sometimes I just think some stuff is silly. Kids stuff. Maybe cool when I was 12 years old.

"And I'm invisible! And I'm walking on the ceiling! And I turn that guy into a fishy! And a throw ball of super ice at the evil demon! And that medusa's not wearing a bra! Blamo! Kaboom!"

When I think Fantasy, I think Middle Earth and Wheel of Time...

Monte's Arcana Unearthed feels like a step in the right direction. If there had been a basic D20 Fantasy book, the worlds created would be so much more diverse. Instead we get Eberron. While it's cool in it's own right as a D and D subtype, it does little for the Fantasy genre as a whole.

Love the genre, love the game, hate the setting.

Leave DandD for the teenagers. Give me D20 Fantasy so I can keep playing my game but feel more confident about what I'm doing. That I'm not just this kid in a basement hacking into dragons. That I'm a grown up adult with a job, responsibilities, who likes going to the bars, and going out for parties, and going out on dates.

"Hells no. I don't play D and D. But I do play a fantasy game every once in a while with some buddies of mine. You ever play a video game? Then so have you."

And don't try to argue that a name means nothing. The name means a lot. Would you give up your name? It influences everything from the way a person initially reacts, and in the case of Dungeons and Dragons, many facets of the rules design. Think of classes... Clerics and polytheism. Wizards and their booklearnin' magic. It's pigeon holes you as a world designer!

So, what do you think? Just make up a homebrew, stop complaining, and stop caring what your friends think. Or maybe I should just accept that roleplaying is just doomed to never be mainstream. It's a subculture. Stop trying to make the game "cool" and ruining it for those people who love it, just because you can't accept a little unwarrented embarrassment!

Sorry for the length, but it's been on my mind for a while. Discuss if you feel so inclined.

The Baron said:

Stop complaining, and stop caring what your friends think.

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Yep. Works for me.

Sounds like a personal problem. For one thing, if you are embarrassed by playing D&D then when speaking to others about it, it will show.

In my experience, there are several camps of non-D&D people:

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1. What's D&D?

Response: It's sort of like structure group storytelling. People get together and come up with a fictional story, each person writing for one character in the tale. Then one person does the backdrop. Conflict between characters (if they disagree on how the story should go) is resolved with dice.

2. Yeah, I heard of that. I think my cousin used to play that.

Response: It's a blast. Though it's a pretty dedicated hobby. Takes lots of time and money. Only downfall.

3. Oh, D&D. I've heard of that. Never played it, though.

Response: You should give it a shot sometime. It's entertaining.

4. Isn't that like about casting spells or summoning demons or something?

Response: *chuckle* No. There was just some weird media frenzy over that in the early 80s or something. People just still remember the fanciful stories about. [then see Response #1]

5. Heathen!!! Heretic!!! You must repent and burn your books!!!

Response: You're kind of a prick aren't you?

6. You play D&D?!? What a loser.

Response: Whatever man. It's fun. It's alot more intellectually stimulating than going to a [choose one: football/basketball/hockey] game and usually more entertaining than sitting in front of the T.V. watching American Idol or Survivor.
---

In my experience, the majority of people are #1. There's a significant minority of #2s and #3s (seems to be prevalent amongst nearing-middle age males). The next biggest group is the #4s (which seems to be most prevalent amongst parents, probably because they felt a certain attachment to those stories when they heard them, as they worried about their own kids). #5s. Yeah. Well. Yeah. There's those people. Smallest group except for #6s. I've never had anybody look down on me for more than a few minutes due to my D&D playing.

Perhaps you need to work on you social skills.

And, BTW, if you are worried about what people think of you, don't use the word fantasy anywhere in your explanation. Tell them it's mostly about socialization and eating pizza/drinking beer. There happens to be a game that sometimes happens in between.

All of this applies to just about anyone in the hobby. Unless you are one of those LARPers. Then I can't help you. You're going to get flak. Accept it. You're an adult and you basically play dress-up and cowboys and indians for god's sake. What's wrong with you?

Hmmm... I hear where you're coming from. Just look at the DnD books themselves. The whole cover artwork (not saying it is crappy, it isn't IMO) screams DnD and all the stigma that it entails. Compare it to the cover of d20 modern, could be the cover of any rules booklet found in a Milton Bradly family game.

I agree with you that the DnD title and material exhales a breath of 'weirdness' to most people who see it. Luckily, I live in the Netherlands, where people rarely heard of the game in the first place, so the books sitting in my shelf, comfily nestling between my management books and clappers with Real Life(tm) crap (bills, contracts, tax and insurance stuff etc.) never raises any eyebrows as they are simply not recognized right off the spine.

As to putting DnD into the mainstream. Would you really want to? To cater to the masses, the game has to be 'dumbed down' and generalised alot more then already happened between Adnd1e and dnd3.5, and I for one, like the older stuff much better then the new ones, so from a games pov, this might not sit well.

Another option is to release a Fantasy d20 besides DnD, as another game.

For me, at the moment it matters little, I have had so little spare time and so few ppl who play dnd around, that I haven't played the game for ages anyhoo....

The Baron said:

Which way do you prefer to explain this passion to your friends.

Option A: "It's a fantasy game. Like a video game, but with dice. Think Lord of the Rings."

Option B: "I play Dungeons and Dragons. Stop laughing. No, seriously. I know all those weird kids played it in high school, but... Vin Deisel plays it, I swear! C'mon man, it's fun and cool and..."

**SNIP**

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Yes, there is a stigma, but I have a way of answering "Do you really play that?" that encourages no further discussion. It's just a manner of speaking, a no non-sense type of approach.

I have never hidden my books, but then, they're in a room most girls wouldn't get into if we were going to hop into the sack. If someone dumped me because of it, then she wasn't worth having. I've made a point of telling every girl I've dated over the last 5+ years or so that I played D&D. My fiancee knows and doesn't care. She doesn't play herself, but is willing to make plans around my game day.

I guess I just got lucky.

JediSoth

"No compromise, even in the face of oblivion" - Rorshache

Nigel

i tell the same thing.

"This new edition plays like a video game. Your kiddies will probably like it. But if you want to play real D&D. Meet me in the steam tunnels beneath MSU."

diaglo said:

i tell the same thing.

"This new edition plays like a video game. Your kiddies will probably like it. But if you want to play real D&D. Meet me in the steam tunnels beneath MSU."

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Funniest thing I've read all night. Can I use it too? Don't worry, you'll be credited.

The Baron said:

I hide my books when I bring girls home to my place for the first time. Look, you can say whatever you want, but a girl looks on my desk and realizes this 23 year old owns a "Dungeons and Dragons Dungeon Masters Guide," and she's gonna have second thoughts.

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You know, the problem's in your head. In the past six months, I've gamed with at least eight different women. There could even be more, but those are the ones I remember off the top of my head. It also doesn't include Convention gaming, which would add at least eight more - I'm talking about regular campaign play.

For that matter, there are at least 3 people at my work who play D&D, who are within a 30' move of my desk.

D&D stigmatises you only because you let it: there are a lot more gamers out there than you might realise

When this topic came up before I wrote this simple script for how to handle folks that ask you about our hobby:

You: "I play D&D."

Them: "I've heard of that. What's it all about?"

You: "Well, are you familiar with 'Furry Porn'?"

Them: "Um, yeah..."

You: "WELL IT'S NOTHING LIKE THAT YOU FREAK!!" (now run away screaming)


Feel free to use this verbatim.