So change my proffered quote to "I'm unhappy with the roll. This is what happens."
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D&D 5E To fudge or not to fudge: that is the question
- Thread starter Cody C. Lewis
- Start date
So change my proffered quote to "I'm unhappy with the roll. This is what happens."
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Melee attacks only. If as Iserith says, they are using ranged weapons, they have no ability to make it non-lethal.
I never said exploration/discovery was the reason for it. I answered your question as to why hide maps/stats and noted that justification can't extend to fudging.
How many DMs have validated their belief that fudging increases player enjoyment? Judging from the latest player-focused poll, most people profess fudging is not desirable which probably means there is at least one person at the table whose enjoyment is lessened through fudging.
No. The game of D&D offers an exploration element as part of its basic play. Hiding exploratory elements is an assumed standard of play in exploration games. Some people play for that element. Not providing that element at a table subverts that form of play and can lessen or even negate enjoyment for some players as you are violating basic precepts of the game you are ostensibly playing. If the table of people don't want an exploration game, it is likely they didn't sit down to play D&D.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Yes it absolutely does. The justification hiding maps/stats is the exact same as fudging. Player enjoyment.
Maybe you're looking at a different poll. The one in this thread says that 77.54% of people fudge. Almost never = I fudge sometimes.
Again, no. It is a requirement of the game style -- it is for enjoyment only in the sense that those that want that game style play this game. I have run many sessions without hiding a map -- specifically because there was nothing on the map to discover; the PCs were in a well-known locations and were not exploring.
I'm referring to the sister poll with a player focus: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-DM-to-fudge&p=6800781&viewfull=1#post6800781
50% of players don't want any fudging. Additionally, with the players who want their DMs to fudge "almost never", without feedback (that secrecy prevents) the DM's fudging preference can't be tested and aligned with the players'.
cmad1977
Hero
Huh, didn't realize that. Makes sense.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
And I have run many sessions without fudging. So what. The purpose of both fudging and exploration/discovery is the exact same. Player enjoyment.
47.5% don't want fudging. It's a slight majority, but currently that poll shows a majority do want fudging. Not that polls on a forum where one person can make 10 accounts mean a whole lot
Rhenny
Adventurer
If a table agrees that the DM is responsible for adjudicating actions/outcomes to run a campaign, it is hard to determine what is fudging and what is just playing the game.
And, I bet in most games, even DMs who say they don't fudge, do. What is fudging? Changing die rolls? Deciding situations without die rolls? Having foes run unexpectedly when all seems lost for the heroes? Handwaving the end of a battle because there are only a few badly wounded foes left to threaten the heroes?
What is most important seems to be that a DM be fair and make sure that player choices become meaningful for the campaign/adventure. Using dice is the main mechanism for decision making when an action is in doubt, but I bet a good DM can run a game without a single die roll as long as rulings are fair and take into consideration player agency. Would that be considered fudging?
And, I bet in most games, even DMs who say they don't fudge, do. What is fudging? Changing die rolls? Deciding situations without die rolls? Having foes run unexpectedly when all seems lost for the heroes? Handwaving the end of a battle because there are only a few badly wounded foes left to threaten the heroes?
What is most important seems to be that a DM be fair and make sure that player choices become meaningful for the campaign/adventure. Using dice is the main mechanism for decision making when an action is in doubt, but I bet a good DM can run a game without a single die roll as long as rulings are fair and take into consideration player agency. Would that be considered fudging?
As a DM I'm transparent on rolls and never had a complaint in that area, I trust my players and want them to trust me.
As a player, I'd like for the DM to at least be a better Poker play than I am if they're going to fudge and not simply think they are. I don't believe it is likely for a DM to successfully bluff for years an entire table of people unless the players are incredibly naive or more likely, willfully ignorant.
If a DM were to say "well he rolled a crit but I'm going to turn it into a normal hit" then I wouldn't have a complaint, it is still fudging but there is no erosion of trust.
As a player, I'd like for the DM to at least be a better Poker play than I am if they're going to fudge and not simply think they are. I don't believe it is likely for a DM to successfully bluff for years an entire table of people unless the players are incredibly naive or more likely, willfully ignorant.
If a DM were to say "well he rolled a crit but I'm going to turn it into a normal hit" then I wouldn't have a complaint, it is still fudging but there is no erosion of trust.
Sure. I contemplated running Amber which is a RPG with absolutely no random determination in it at all (ultimately I didn't -- I prefer to not be the sole arbiter of success). Running it or making calls without resorting to dice in other games isn't fudging, Fudging is turning to a determination system and then overruling the result -- typically covertly. When making a ruling without turning to dice there is no misunderstanding. The table knows the situation and can question the rationale as desired and the apparent stakes aren't co-opted by the DM to his desires.
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