D&D 5E Treantmonk's Guide to Wizards 5e

DaveDash said:

When you DC is 18, and you're fighting a high level NPC with a Wisdom save of +0, then hold Person is the "I win button" in the game. Even creatures with really high Wisdom Saves still have around 50/50 chance of being stunlocked by this spell when your DC starts getting high.

At low levels it's not that great, at high levels it's freaking amazing. You can take out CR20 NPC's with a 2nd level spell.

Forcecage is actually similar, and you've rated that as a poor spell. It's kind of broken. The only thing that makes it not broken is the fact you can only cast it once per day, but it's your "I win" against anything huge size or smaller, including many Dragons. Getting the material components is easy. My group got them after killing a enemy caster with those components, but once you get high levels 1500gp worth of rubies is easy to come by.

Are you playing high level games?

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emdw45 said:

Four times per day at twentieth level. (Theoretically as many as six times with epic boons, not like that's ever going to happen in most games.)



Two small corrections: it's a one-time cost of 15 gp, not a per-casting cost of 5 gp. Perhaps more significantly, it is not completely safe, it is only 99.9% safe. Your extraplanar mansion can be invaded by someone casting Gate.

RE: Teleport,



Precision. Teleport can get you to a particular spot. Plane Shift can get you to a Waterdeep or to a teleportation circle within Waterdeep; Teleport can get you to the Salty Seaurchin on the Waterdeep waterfront, or to your research lab.

(Also Plane Shift wouldn't work in the phlogiston.)

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Treantmonklvl20 said:

As for hold person, yes, with a failed save, an applicable target is super-screwed for a round. With each additional failed save, screwed for another round. As I mentioned in the statement you quoted, lots of spells screw the target who fails a save, though many don't provide saves every round, or affect multiple creatures, or have a wider variety of applicable targets, or don't require concentration.

Hold person can win a battle. Otto's irresistible dance can win a battle. Slow can win a battle. I just don't consider these the best options compared to the competition.

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emdw45 said:

You'd seriously want to read a "guide" full of truisms? Well, you're somebody, so clearly I must therefore acknowledge that some people want it. Granted then.

But my sympathies are obviously with those who don't desire to write such a guide because it's a waste of time. I've already given you some examples of sentences that I think belong in a guide, and they're not nearly as generic as your Fireball observation. In fact I think the only useful guide would consist of observations on conditions under which a given spell excels, so a given player can index himself based on play style. "Let's see, my DM uses small grids, all our battles are in 120' rooms or less, we like offense more than defense and prefer nova rounds, and the DM likes mobs of melee trash more than archers or lone champions. Yep, Fireball will be good for me."

The key quality a guide should be conveying is INSIGHT. Who cares what the subjective gold/blue/red rating is--what matters is the understanding of the spell that the reader gains, so he can do his own ratings during play, of that spell and others.

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Celtavian said:

I hope you reevaluate the Trickery domain if you do a cleric guide. It is probably the best domain for a cleric. Why? I'll lists the reasons in order for you to evaluate:

1. Bonus spells are amazing for a cleric. Almost every single spell is one a cleric doesn't have. Every single spell is useful in some aspect of the game whether combat, social, or exploration. Compare the bonus spell list for Trickery versus all the other bonus spells list. I think you'll see their value.

2. The abilities. Give Advantage on Stealth at will. No limit per day. Lasts for an hour. Advantage on Stealth in this edition is amazing.

3. Invoke Duplicity: This ability is incredibly interesting. It allows you to deliver touch spells at range. Or attack someone from near total cover or out of sight range. It also allows you to heal from range. You can deliver touch spells like contagion, cure from range, cast spells like lesser restoration, and it also makes an opponent decide who they are going to attack: you or your perfect image. Not to mention the ability to gain advantage in melee combat without spending any kind of action if you do happen to be in combat.

I've used my shadow to fight while standing 40 or 50 feet from the battle. It wanders around healing people and blasting away with sacred flame or other spells while I'm relaxing somewhere within sight of the battle, but nowhere near it. At the highest level you can have up to four of the duplicates spread about the battlefield near party members for delivery of important cures or restoratives while blasting away from various shadows making opponents choose to attack. Unless your DM can somehow show why the opponent would know exactly who was real and who was not.

Read the ability..."you create a perfect illusion of yourself." I'll provide more feedback as I use the ability more. The Trickery Domain has been incredibly useful so far.

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Snapdragyn said:

Wow, I've certainly reevaluated it - into this being my next character! I can BILOCATE?! And get this - even if an enemy does somehow realize the duplicate is an illusion, there is nothing in the text that says this prevents you from continuing to cast spells through it! Oh, hello Mr. Undamagable Touch Attack Dealer, nice to meet you! Where's the guy concentrating to maintain you? 120' away you say?

Heck, now I'm really wondering about dipping into this for a multiclass w/ my illusion-focused warlock. Granted, his WIS sucks - but thematically so delicious.

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Treantmonklvl20 said:

MMM: Thanks! I'll fix that up. (edit: As for 99.9% - also keep in mind they need to find out where the mansion is in order to open a gate there. Not an easy proposition even if they have the gate spell)

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emdw45 said:

Not exactly. They need to know the name of a creature that is in the mansion. Are the PCs famous, even moderately so? If yes, then one or more of them can probably be Gated unless they are paranoid enough to habitually rely on pseudonyms/mage names, the way Bruce Wayne/Batman does.

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Treantmonklvl20 said:

Your PC's name and their "true name" are very unlikely to be the same. A "true name" is a word that perfectly describes the nature of the named creature, not the name your parents gave you.

Edit: Looks like Gate doesn't require a true name. That's a definite bonus to the spell.

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Celtavian said:

I've used my shadow to fight while standing 40 or 50 feet from the battle. It wanders around healing people and blasting away with sacred flame or other spells while I'm relaxing somewhere within sight of the battle, but nowhere near it. At the highest level you can have up to four of the duplicates spread about the battlefield near party members for delivery of important cures or restoratives while blasting away from various shadows making opponents choose to attack. Unless your DM can somehow show why the opponent would know exactly who was real and who was not.

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3. There is no skill to determine if the creature is dominated. Detect magic is not easy to cast in a timely manner. It's not easy to detect domination.

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