Ruthless Ruffian, Anyone ?

[burntgerbil]

After a near-TPK I got the chance to create a rogue from Martial Power. In the past, I have played an Artful Dodger from level 1-3 and was pretty impressed by it. Looking through the MP at first glance, it seems like they nerfed the power level of Most Powers to be less powerful than the ones in the PHB.

I have built a lvl 5 Ruthless Ruffian and have enjoyed the heck out of him so far - Here are a few of my notes. I am looking for suggestions or insights about other gamer's experience with the build. I can't seem to find any info or feedback from anyone who has played one, which is the main reason I am writing this.

He plays a bit different than the standard rogue : two-handing a mace and generally scaring the crap out of people with it - almost like he's somewhere in-between a warlock, fighter and rogue.

He has a pretty decent damage (1d8+11) with his main at-will disheartening strike - and I have found myself really liking the attack powers in the MP that are not standard actions - Most of the rattling powers seem to be sub-par in the damage arena at lvl 5, so I use these powers to squeeze in more attacks over the course of an encounter - and it appears to work great. I am not sure if this benefit is purely psychological or not - but the party loves it when I squeeze in an attack during an enemy's turn.

So, do you have any experience with this build yet ? Any tips ? Anything in particular I should look out for ?

 

[chitzk0i]

The thing about it is that if you have a steady supply of combat advantage, you can add your strength bonus to damage with Brutal Scoundrel. But if you grab a bunch of Rattling attacks and upgrade to a two-handed mace, you'll have some decent damage without combat advantage, which is an intriguing idea. Not sure if it's worth doing, but that's what I see as a (the?) reason to go with Ruthless Ruffian.

 

[MindWanderer]

I would think party mix would be a strong reason to choose one over the other. If you have no defender (or if your defender never does their job right), Ruthless Ruffian could be a lot more effective, with CA harder to achieve.

 

[burntgerbil]

If you're like me and you took a plethora of powers that are minor, free and interrupt powers, (although, most are not rattling) you will get you +STR to rattling mace attacks more than once per round - possibly putting you over the top of Brutal Scoundrel.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

The subtle and easily missed aspect of Ruthless Ruffian is that there are a few tricks inherent to it that make you the best Rogue at using ranged attacks.

 

[James McMurray]

The subtle and easily missed aspect of Ruthless Ruffian is that there are a few tricks inherent to it that make you the best Rogue at using ranged attacks.

Such as?

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Such as?

As an exercise, I challenged myself to make the best Ranged Rogue possible. I started out with Drow, since he can turn the Hand Crossbow into 1d8 High crit and can get his own combat advantage once per encounter(twice at Paragon). Then, lets look at a few things:

Level 1--Disheartening Strike can be used with Ranged Attacks

Level 2--Reap the Rattled: Once per day, gain combat advantage against a rattled enemy. Any Rogue can take this, but a Ruthless Ruffian will always be trained in Intimidate and always have Rattling powers. Can be used with Ranged attack

Level 3--Enforced Threat: Ruthless Ruffian gives combat advantage if your target is already rattled, and this can be a ranged attack.

Level 6--Ferret Out Failty: Gives you combat advantage until the end of your next turn against a rattled enemy, and this is an encounter power.


Just a taste of lower level powers. Once you get to higher levels, there are other ways to keep combat advantage applied when using ranged attacks, like the power that keeps you invisible as long as you don't move.

 

[Mengu]

As an exercise, I challenged myself to make the best Ranged Rogue possible. I started out with Drow, since he can turn the Hand Crossbow into 1d8 High crit and can get his own combat advantage once per encounter(twice at Paragon). Then, lets look at a few things:

Level 1--Disheartening Strike can be used with Ranged Attacks

Level 2--Reap the Rattled: Once per day, gain combat advantage against a rattled enemy. Any Rogue can take this, but a Ruthless Ruffian will always be trained in Intimidate and always have Rattling powers. Can be used with Ranged attack

Level 3--Enforced Threat: Ruthless Ruffian gives combat advantage if your target is already rattled, and this can be a ranged attack.

Level 6--Ferret Out Failty: Gives you combat advantage until the end of your next turn against a rattled enemy, and this is an encounter power.


Just a taste of lower level powers. Once you get to higher levels, there are other ways to keep combat advantage applied when using ranged attacks, like the power that keeps you invisible as long as you don't move.

Wouldn't the exact same build (except Enforced Threat) be better as a Brutal Scoundrel since you get to add your strength bonus to all those sneak attacks? By playing a Ruthless Ruffian as more of a range attacker, you are giving up on all the damage bonus from two-handing a mace.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Wouldn't the exact same build (except Enforced Threat) be better as a Brutal Scoundrel since you get to add your strength bonus to all those sneak attacks? By playing a Ruthless Ruffian as more of a range attacker, you are giving up on all the damage bonus from two-handing a mace.

The benefit is that these powers are based on mechanics you are already focusing on. The same things you are already doing to focus on two-handing a mace are boosting your ranged attacks by giving the combat advantage where they wouldn't have it before. A Brutal Scoundrel will have to become less of a Brutal Scoundrel to do this ranged schtick. A Ruthless Ruffian sacrifices little because most of stuff you need are things you'd be taking anyway, and can be applied to two-handing a mace at the same time.

 

[DracoSuave]

Um, a Brutal Scoundrel can use Rattling attacks; so long as he has Combat Advantage he gets his bonus damage. A Ruthless Ruffian has to use a mace/club to get his bonus, so if you're doing ranged, Brutal Scoundrel's your bacon, not Ruthless Ruffian.