Jack99
Adventurer
I think WotC will come out and sell the PDF (old and new) themselves.
WotC puts a stop to online sales of PDFs
I think WotC will come out and sell the PDF (old and new) themselves.
Stormtalon
First Post
I'd agree it's a spectacularly dumb move -- for many of the reasons already outlined: punishing honest customers, being counterproductive, etc, etc. Can't exactly say I'm worked up over it, though; PDF books aren't my cup of tea, as it were.
I'm one of those tactile folks -- gotta have the book in my hands, feel its weight, feel the texture of the paper (get the occasional paper cut) and indulge in that wonderful new book smell, so I'll likely never use 'em. Doesn't mean I've no sympathy for folks who do like 'em, though. It's a sucky move and woefully shortsighted.
I just hope they've got something in the works soon to pick up the slack and show they've not totally gone ostrich on us. They'll need a lot longer to rebuild even a small amount of the goodwill they've lost doing this, that's for sure.
I'm one of those tactile folks -- gotta have the book in my hands, feel its weight, feel the texture of the paper (get the occasional paper cut) and indulge in that wonderful new book smell, so I'll likely never use 'em. Doesn't mean I've no sympathy for folks who do like 'em, though. It's a sucky move and woefully shortsighted.
I just hope they've got something in the works soon to pick up the slack and show they've not totally gone ostrich on us. They'll need a lot longer to rebuild even a small amount of the goodwill they've lost doing this, that's for sure.
I would like to point out again that we dont know if their reactions are due to the recent discovery of the PHB 2 piracy, Trevors statement can just as easily had been made to refer to actual stores with distribution policies which WotC Legal staff now consider piracy and have done a massive pullout to detemine who is actually pirating and who isnt and to consider their legal options after that.
Again this doesnt excuse their actions, but it is a more plausible reaction to the "We skipped the last 10 or so years of internet history, and just NOW realized our product was being torrented"
Again this doesnt excuse their actions, but it is a more plausible reaction to the "We skipped the last 10 or so years of internet history, and just NOW realized our product was being torrented"
Brown Jenkin
First Post
Despite the statements that this is about piracy, I am wondering if this has anything to do with the GAMA Trade Show next week when they will be facing all the retailers face to face.
mach1.9pants
Hero
That is a good point, maybe the licence or whatever with WotC is for one product, therefore one download. Which is legally fine, just like anything if you loose it it is your problem. RPGnow/Paizo just automatically carried over their normal 5/unlimited download model without checking the fine print.
I don't think it is the case but it is a good point.
Scribble
First Post
If I remember correctly it took wizards a while to actually get into the pdf market at all. When they did, they started with heavily DRMed ebooks that lacked a number of key functions pdf users wanted/needed. Then when they finally switched to the current PDF form, they did so at prices that were increadibly high (for pdfs) and not every book was available. It wasn't until the current edition that they started offering all the books released at a price discounted from the print version.
I know based on the limited statement we have it appears that this action was done as a "reaction" to pirating, but I kind of get the feeling that it's more that piracy was used as the ultimate "proof" against pdfs.
I think someone just finally had the numbers needed to show PDFs in a bad light.
I know based on the limited statement we have it appears that this action was done as a "reaction" to pirating, but I kind of get the feeling that it's more that piracy was used as the ultimate "proof" against pdfs.
I think someone just finally had the numbers needed to show PDFs in a bad light.
Klaus
First Post
WotC was selling something through a specific media.
WotC decided to stop selling.
Where's the beef?
When I buy an eletronic *anything*, I make a backup copy. If I buy a physical book and I later lose the book, do I go to the bookstore and pick up another copy for free? Is an eletronic book to be treated any different?
As for piracy: piracy IS theft, no two ways about it. Someone spent hours creating that thing, someone paid for the software used to layout the thing, someone paid artists to do the cover of the thing... Is their work worth "less" because the fruit of their work is intangible?
WotC decided to stop selling.
Where's the beef?
When I buy an eletronic *anything*, I make a backup copy. If I buy a physical book and I later lose the book, do I go to the bookstore and pick up another copy for free? Is an eletronic book to be treated any different?
As for piracy: piracy IS theft, no two ways about it. Someone spent hours creating that thing, someone paid for the software used to layout the thing, someone paid artists to do the cover of the thing... Is their work worth "less" because the fruit of their work is intangible?
Alzrius
The EN World kitten
I wasn't clear in my initial post. I don't think it matters in terms of the loss of trust and ill-will generated among their customers. WotC may very well come up with a new digital distribution system for their books in the future. However, that won't erase how many of their customers feel burned and vote with their wallet accordingly right now.
When you do something that alienates your customer base, you can't just undo the damage by coming back later and doing the opposite.
Zaruthustran
The tingling means it’s working!
Wrong. Simply incorrect, on technical legal as well as moral grounds. It's simple: if you've taken something of value without paying for it, you've stolen it. That's what stealing means.
That said, your long rationalization for theft does have some merit to the discussion. Some percentage of pirates likely would buy if the price was right. iTunes is an excellent example. $1 songs are demonstrably at the convergence of price, convenience, and guilt aversion. Most people are willing to pay a buck for a song that's easy to browse and buy. And most people think a dollar is not too high a price to pay in exchange for not feeling like a scumbag pirate/thief.
Wizards clearly needs to adjust to the realities of the digital generation and I think the new direction of DDI is a big step in the right direction. If they make more money by selling quality services, they can afford to price their digital (and print?) offerings lower... hopefully, low enough that convenience and the joy of guilt-free living tips the balance from piracy.
In my opinion, the community can help the situation by applying social pressure against pirates. Shun these cowards. There's one in every group; the loser who proudly pulls out stapled prints of new books. Refuse to game with them, and hit 'em with the "what, you can't afford twenty lousy bucks for a book?" shame. It should work on anyone worth knowing. Certainly anyone who considers themselves an adult.
-z, who grudgingly accepts that there'll always be penniless teens who resort to shoplifting/piracy.
tmatk
Explorer
No it's not, it's infringement. If I make a copy, they still have their copy, so I didn't take it. One can argue I cheated them out of the money I would have gave them, but one would have to prove that I would have paid to begin with.
It's still wrong, no mistake, but it's not theft.
