On Change, Old School, New School, Same School, and High School.

[Cadfan]

I've had a very different journey.

When I was but a little nerd I played games like Rules Cyclopedia D&D, and later 3e, Warhammer Fantasy, Battletech, and Risk.

When I was a medium nerd I played 3e and Magic the Gathering.

And now, as a giant nerd, I play eurogames, modern top-line miniature wargames like Infinity and Anima Tactics, and 4e. And I'm familiar with more RPGs than just the D&D franchise.

For those who know these games, there should be some clear trends indicated. A clear move away from rules that exist for simulation towards rules that exist to facilitate interesting decisions. Away from tables and multiple die rolls towards elegance and simplicity in rules, with complexity in viable options. A move towards elegance, and the idea that the part of the game that's decision-rich and interesting should be the part that you spend the most time upon, and conversely that any part that is decision-poor and uninteresting should require minimal attention.

Due to travel and not having a constant gaming group, its unlikely that I will ever crystalize in a single place on this path. Unless I do settle down with one set of friends, but that's not likely in the near future.

Its hard to really explain this to an audience that's probably mostly unfamiliar with modern trends in board games and war games.

But... modern games are a quantum leap ahead of a lot of older games. And RPGs, while probably the area of gaming that's the most conservative and terrified of change (ok, cardboard chit wargamers are worse), are still puttering onward into the future. And I can't even imagine going backwards.

 

[Scribble]

It's weird how wildly different it's perceived given people's expectations of what they want out of the game. For my experiences, 4e plays the same length in combats, has similar math surrounding monster/PC hit dice & staying power, has numbers that fall in similar ranges, and has similar monster, DMing, and treasure assumptions, as the AD&D games I used to play in my teens and early 20's. Though everything around it is quite different, from the healing surges, to the powers & feats, etc. -- The actual play is very reminiscent to me, and looking back on 3E as I recall even the low-level games I've played from 2001 to now, it really hasn't been that similar.

Henry, I agree with you completely. Even my DMing experience has felt more in line with how things used to be back in my earlier gaming days.

 

[Aus_Snow]

4e is now the definitive case of change for the sake of change in the field of tabletop RPGs. Well, for the sake of money-making *only*, at least. Not the only case, sure. But it wins first prize, with ease and a confidence born of brand power unrivalled.

And most of that other mass market crap you are also not too keen on, Joe? Yep, same again - when there's change or even a show of it, that is. Otherwise, whole cloth regurgitation ftw.

So yeah, I understand completely. And sympathise, a great deal, and not just when it comes to D&D. Stick to your guns, don't buy into the marketing BS, and save yourself some cash besides. w00t!

 

[Rokes]

Dude. I'm all that, cept I had the kids. And tried the dot bomb, kinda got rich to.

Yet no Community Supporter tag? Shame on you!

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

4e is now the definitive case of change for the sake of change in the field of tabletop RPGs. Well, for the sake of money-making *only*, at least. Not the only case, sure. But it wins first prize, with ease and a confidence born of brand power unrivalled.

Labelling your opinion as definitive does not make it true.

Many people like the changes that were made and consider them change for the sake of a better game. Everyone has their own opinion based on their tastes.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Labelling your opinion as definitive does not make it true.

Many people like the changes that were made and consider them change for the sake of a better game. Everyone has their own opinion based on their tastes.

Absolutely. Uh, so to speak.

Take as many IMOs, IMEs and YMMVs to be implied, as you find palatable. There are indeed some that were meant to be implied, for that matter.

 

[darjr]

Yet no Community Supporter tag? Shame on you!

Yes, I need to change that!

 

[Ulrick]

I just turned 30 about a month ago and it hit me:

I've been playing D&D and other RPGs regularly for TWENTY YEARS!

I started at the tail-end of AD&D before moving on to 2e and later 3.5. Like Joethelawyer, I've rejected 4e. In those twenty years I've accumulated thousands of dollars of RPG books and wargaming "stuff" (I don't even want to know the $ amount!). I've spent hours pouring over books and painting miniatures so my players can have a great experience. I love this hobby. Maybe I love it too much.

Now I look at all this stuff and think to myself:
1. Was/is it all worth it?
I have many published adventures that I've owned for 10+ years that wanted to run but never have. I've spent countless hours playing and preparing for games when I could have been doing more productive things.
I even have minis from the early 1990s that I've yet to paint.

2. All this stuff is pain to move. In the movie Fight Club, Tyler Durden says: "The more stuff you own the more it ends up owning you." It's so true. I move about every 2 years or so. And it really is a pain. I also have to maintain all this stuff. I hate selling it. When I had to "downsize" my 3e books because of financial problems it hurt. But once those books were gone, I actually felt relieved.

3. 4th Edition seemed to make much of this stuff obsolete. I know now that's one of the main reasons I gave up on 4e (aside from my 3 quibbles and other reasons). I have all this cool stuff that I don't want to convert and I don't want to buy anymore new stuff either.

4. The elusive perfect game. Perhaps this is what I've been chasing. I want that perfect gaming session where everybody has fun and the rules are "just right." Maybe somewhere in all this "stuff" and the "stuff to be" there is a bit of crunch or some fluff that will make the perfect game. It is the Holy Grail.

And you know what? I think the perfect game session happened 20 years ago when I my older brother introduced me to AD&D. I played a 1st level dwarven fighter named Havoc. He was hired by a town to hunt down orcs in the nearby forest. I had no idea what was going on or how the rules worked. Orcs and Dwarves were just monsters out of Tolkien, and I thought that was so cool. I fought an ogre. I had only some idea what an ogre was. I held up one of my old M.U.S.C.L.E. figures to my brother and said: "Does this look like an ogre, even though he has a third eye?"
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M.U.S.C.L.E.)

I'm pretty sure that I haven't experienced that sense of wonder since. I've come close. Maybe its because I'm almost always the one DMing. 4e seemed to get back to the sense wonder until I realized didn't like it for various reasons.

Don't get me wrong. I love gaming. Some of my fondest memories are around the gaming table are with friends. D&D has been a great outlet for my creativity and has actually gotten me through some tough times in my life.

Still, at this juncture, I can't help but think: Should I start doing something else?

 

[Mercurius]

Because the dark and gritty truth is that all good ideas have long since been 'vitalized', and then revitalized and then rerevitalized... Only when the human condition changes dramatically and significantly does the opportunity arise for an [almost] original idea.

Also, because it's easier to jump on the bandwagon than build your own wagon.

I hear what you are saying and generally agree, but I think it is a mistake to equate originality with artistic quality, whether intentionally or not (I'm not sure you are doing either, but there is a common tendency to do so). Furthermore, I don't equate "vitalized" work with "original" work. Or rather, I don't see "originality" as equating with something new, as if all one has to do to be original is say "Imagine a universe where the clouds are actually the buttocks of great bilious deities and the trees are neon pink with tinsel fruit that sprout wings as they fall to the ground." Hey, that's a novel idea but is it original? I think not. "Original" means origin-al...from a place of origin. Primal. Archetypal. Something that is truly "original" will echo beyond itself; something that is just novel will die, quickly forgotten.

Or it may be that I am personally not interested in originality at all, but something more akin to that which carries archetypal resonance. The form it takes doesn't have to be original in the sense of novel, but I would like it to be able to hold depth, and to do so in an aesthetically pleasing manner (which can vary widely). I'd rather have simple yet resonant names like Gondor and Arnor than Exzidchopilop and Rxoripus. The latter are more novel, but they are flat; they don't carry meaning and won't bear children, so to speak. Gondor and Arnor will (and have already) live for ages.

This is not to say that I don't enjoy encountering something new, but that the sense of wonderment I am talking about--the deep experience of the imagination catching fire--has nothing (or very little) to do with novelty, and much more to do with what I am calling archetypal resonance...along with numerous other factors such as the much bandied-around term verisimilitude, aesthetic harmony, cultural relevance, etc.

 

[Nellisir]

Still, at this juncture, I can't help but think: Should I start doing something else?

I cannot say how much I agree with this.

I've been going through my hard drive, looking at old files from ten or more years ago, and my feelings, overall, are a mix of bewilderment and amazement. 90% of my creativity was ten years ago, and frankly, it was good. Now I'm chewing the same stuff over and over. Realizing it pisses me off.

Personally, I think I'm gravitating towards retro-clones not because of nostalgia (I pretty much started with 2e), but because stripping away the mechanics is going to force me to focus on the writing and the creation, which is all this ever was in the beginning.