Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder - sell me

[DaveMage]

I am still wish I was a bug on the wall a year ago when someone said with a straight face "Lets give wizards more class features" I mean really, was there some player somewhere who thought it was weaker to take 17 levels of wizard that to take 30 levels of fighter???

The idea is not to increase a wizard's capability compared with a fighter, it is to increase the appeal of a straight wizard over a wizard + arcane spellcasting prestige class(es).

With 3.5 RAW, there's very little incentive to play a straight wizard beyond level 10 when there are prestige classes that give you the same benefits + extra significant prestige class benefits. The same problem applies to 3.5 RAW sorcerers.

 

[hewligan]

My thoughts would be:

1) The internal presentation will be stunning. All Paizo products I own look fantastic, and have been getting better with each iteration
2) The art will be top notch (WAR FTW)
3) The quality of writing will be among the best in the industry
4) The editing is generally of a fantastic level, which when you are a bit of a stickler like me is a big BIG deal
5) Paizo have a fantastic approach to their fan base through deliberate engagement through forums, and thus you do get a lot of after-purchase-care with your product
6) The actual rule changes remain much of a mystery. If you like 3.5e, but had a few issues with it, you may love Pathfinder. If you HATE 3.5e, well, it ain't going to be for you
7) Full adventure support, combined with a campaign setting, and large 3rd party support suggest that the system has some longevity

I will be buying it.

 

[Twowolves]

Two words:

Ongoing

Support.


Or three more words:
Paizo's Adventures ROCK!

 

[DaveMage]

5) Paizo have a fantastic approach to their fan base through deliberate engagement through forums, and thus you do get a lot of after-purchase-care with your product.

The fact that even the Paizo CEO is so responsive to questions on the Paizo messageboards is amazing to me. The whole crew there really seem to strive to make customer satisfaction a top priority.

And, of course, the CEO is a gamer (and collector) too, so she's got that going for her...which is nice.

 

[Truth Seeker]

Added...

A win-win, in my book

The fact that even the Paizo CEO is so responsive to questions on the Paizo messageboards is amazing to me. The whole crew there really seem to strive to make customer satisfaction a top priority.

And, of course, the CEO is a gamer (and collector) (and SMART Businsess person) too, so she's got that going for her...which is nice.

 

[timbannock]

Paizo's service is pretty much the best ever. And I mean that for any company I've ever dealt with, not just in this industry. They rock.

(shameless plug: same with Troll Lords)

Anyway, I might have missed it, but what's the word on high-level play in Pathfinder? That's the only thing holding me back at this point, and sadly, it's juuuuusstt important enough for me to base my decision on it.

 

[DaveMage]

Anyway, I might have missed it, but what's the word on high-level play in Pathfinder? That's the only thing holding me back at this point, and sadly, it's juuuuusstt important enough for me to base my decision on it.

We don't know yet for sure, but I think some little changes that were made to speed things up (such as the CMB mechanic, changes to the way spells work, and how magic items interract) will have an even bigger payoff with high-level encounters.

I don't think there will be anywhere near a massive mechanic overhaul that fundamentally changes/improves high-level play, but the little changes that were made may aggregately improve the complexity and speed of encounters(at least, I think that's the idea).

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

Paizo's service is pretty much the best ever. And I mean that for any company I've ever dealt with, not just in this industry. They rock.

(shameless plug: same with Troll Lords)

Anyway, I might have missed it, but what's the word on high-level play in Pathfinder? That's the only thing holding me back at this point, and sadly, it's juuuuusstt important enough for me to base my decision on it.

We have made a number of adjustments to the game to deal with some of the problems of high level play. That said, there is no "big ticket" fix. There are some math issues involved with high level play that were impossible for us to circumvent, but we have taken numerous other small steps to address it from other angles.

That said, we have made some adjustments to some of the classes that most considered overpowered at high levels. This includes altering some spells and class abilities to pull these classes to a spot a bit more in line with the others. Of course, we adjusted the weaker classes as well to make up for some of their deficiencies. I am not going to go into the details at this time, but you will begin to see them in the upcoming previews.

I do wish that folks wouldn't just write us off, out of turn, without any real insight into the final game, but I am also a realist. I know the book will not be for everyone, no matter the final form.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing

 

[Intense_Interest]

We have made a number of adjustments to the game to deal with some of the problems of high level play. That said, there is no "big ticket" fix. There are some math issues involved with high level play that were impossible for us to circumvent, but we have taken numerous other small steps to address it from other angles.

...

I do wish that folks wouldn't just write us off, out of turn, without any real insight into the final game, but I am also a realist. I know the book will not be for everyone, no matter the final form.

I'm probably one of those people who Pathfinder will ultimately not-be-for, considering I found that the D20 system is merely a great system for Spycraft and Modern-World gaming and a poor system for any Magical World campaigns. I'll probably give the book a long-glance and maybe a "rental" at my FLGS, at least enough to know what I want to cannibalize for my own 4E campaign. This is because I know that the work done by Piazo is top-shelf Fantasy work, and I definately appreciate craftsmenship by itself.

But if we're going to treat Piazo as a Big-Kid Company, and serve them the same strict-scrutiny that Big-Kid Companies need, I have to ask: You guys had the system in your hands and worked on it for nearly 14 months now (or more!) and the best answer to people who found that there was issues with high level play is that it's too big to change? Why even include those levels, instead of chopping off the OGL chart at 16 (or 13, or 9) and then re-designing the game at that point? You're already altering the OGL to suit the system's needs, what would be the loss if you played it truthful and said that "16+ is Epic Levels and has completely different rules from OGL to support it?"

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

But if we're going to treat Piazo as a Big-Kid Company, and serve them the same strict-scrutiny that Big-Kid Companies need, I have to ask: You guys had the system in your hands and worked on it for nearly 14 months now (or more!) and the best answer to people who found that there was issues with high level play is that it's too big to change? Why even include those levels, instead of chopping off the OGL chart at 16 (or 13, or 9) and then re-designing the game at that point? You're already altering the OGL to suit the system's needs, what would be the loss if you played it truthful and said that "16+ is Epic Levels and has completely different rules from OGL to support it?"

It is the best answer we could come up with that did not require a complete redesign of a wide variety of game elements. Changing BAB and save progressions is a big shift that affects a wide variety of rules, from feats and spells, to prestige classes and all of the higher CR monsters. There are other ways to affect some change in this regard, and we have enacted everything we saw as possible while still maintaining compatibility with the existing material.

I can see that you do not agree with this philosophy and that is fine. We had some set guidelines in designing this game, and while they were open to interpretation, redesigning a wide portion of the game beyond X level was going a bit too far.

I believe that some of the problems with high level play have been resolved to my satisfaction. Whether or not the gaming public agrees will probably not be known until some time after the core book is released and folks get a chance to work with all of the rules.

Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing