D&D 4E 4e vs. Paizo: Mommy, Daddy, please stop fighting!

[James Jacobs]

It's a shame - from my point of view - but understandable.

I still think it is something you should consider, possibly after pathfinder has been launched next year. And there are a lot of freelancers about that do know 4e very well, they could do a stat conversion document with some 4e tips for the encounters.

Anyway, all the best with PF...

Again, while I'm flattered that folk would love us to produce content for their preferred system... that's not going to happen. We have our own game and our own future now, one that we're in control of. In my opinion, spending Paizo time to support another company's product is backpedaling. And personally, I still feel that our product is the better product; call it company pride or stodgy opinion, but it is what it is.

I'm glad there's a lot of support for 4th edition, I'm flattered that some folks want Paizo or me to be part of that support, but it's not going to happen.

That said, if WotC comes to us and asks for a license from Paizo to do official 4th edition conversions of our products... they know where to find me!

 

[Mournblade94]

And personally, I still feel that our product is the better product; call it company pride or stodgy opinion, but it is what it is.

I would have to agree, and I have only played the BETA. I am impressed so far.

I'm glad there's a lot of support for 4th edition, I'm flattered that some folks want Paizo or me to be part of that support, but it's not going to happen.

I was previously just creating my own adventures for Forgotten Realms. I wish I knew just how good the Pathfinder adventure paths were back then. I missed out on alot.

That said, if WotC comes to us and asks for a license from Paizo to do official 4th edition conversions of our products... they know where to find me!

That would be grand

 

[stonegod]

That said, if WotC comes to us and asks for a license from Paizo to do official 4th edition conversions of our products... they know where to find me!

Which is as likely as Pazio doing 4E stuff.

Until the market forces them to change, WotC and Paizo are going to do their separate things. Which is cool, because (for now) there seems to be enough folks and dollars to go around. Some might freelance for both, but what is done is done. Good luck to both.

Of course, Paizo still sells 4E through their store...

 

[James Jacobs]

Which is as likely as Pazio doing 4E stuff.

Until the market forces them to change, WotC and Paizo are going to do their separate things. Which is cool, because (for now) there seems to be enough folks and dollars to go around. Some might freelance for both, but what is done is done. Good luck to both.

Of course, Paizo still sells 4E through their store...

Yup. We also sell all sorts of other game systems and products and stuff. The paizo.com store is actually a really nice extra "leg" to support the company; it more or less runs 100% separate from what we do in the publishing side of things, but both support each other really rather well.

And as for freelancing for both... while Paizo doesn't have a noncompete policy, WotC (as far as I know) does—an employee of WotC cannot write for another company at all. Which frustrates me, of course, since there's a lot of really talented game designers over there I'd love to have writing for Paizo!

 

[Mouseferatu]

And as for freelancing for both... while Paizo doesn't have a noncompete policy, WotC (as far as I know) does—an employee of WotC cannot write for another company at all.

I can't speak as to whether that's true for employees, but it's not the case for most freelancers that I'm aware of. Heck, before my most recent WotC gig, I'd just finished up working on a 4E Blackmoor product for Code Monkey Publishing.

 

[fireinthedust]

As the OP I just want to remind everyone that I didn't mean to start a sniping thread, or ruffle hairs, between fans.
...however, if it keeps the good stuff pumping out, woo hoo!


Question: if writers can't do work for other companies, what about artists? Reynolds did the 4e cover as well as the Pathfinder cover (which is amazing, even among his body of work), in I assume the same time period. Ditto Steve Prescott, with his Magic stuff and the AP for Paizo.

 

[James Jacobs]

As the OP I just want to remind everyone that I didn't mean to start a sniping thread, or ruffle hairs, between fans.
...however, if it keeps the good stuff pumping out, woo hoo!


Question: if writers can't do work for other companies, what about artists? Reynolds did the 4e cover as well as the Pathfinder cover (which is amazing, even among his body of work), in I assume the same time period. Ditto Steve Prescott, with his Magic stuff and the AP for Paizo.

The difference there is that the artists are not actually employees of WotC, and as freelancers, they're free to do work for whoever they want. Likewise freelance writers. I'm talking about actual sit-in-a-desk-in-the-building employees of WotC.

 

[Arnwyn]

However, I don't think we'll ever see this happen. Not because of the Paizo designers, but because of the Pathfinder fans that would start screaming about being "betrayed by Paizo" and calling for the good Paizo employees heads on a platter.

What a hilariously ridiculous assertion.

Paizo has long made clear why they won't/can't, if anyone bothers to pay attention.

 

[Gothmog]

What a hilariously ridiculous assertion.

Paizo has long made clear why they won't/can't, if anyone bothers to pay attention.

You're entitled to your opinion of course, just as I am mine. Mr. Jacobs has clarified his position in this thread (which I had not seen before now), and I realize there won't be any 4e Paizo products, which is disappointing.

However, I still stand by my assertion that in the hypothetical situation if Paizo DID support 4e, many Pathfinder fans would go insane. There is good reason to think this, based on the past behavior of quite a few folks. The 3e loyalists (many of which are the same people now carrying the banner for Paizo) did it when WotC announced 4e, again with greater rancor when 4e was released (with claims such as "4e destroyed D&D", "WotC has betrayed us/the D&D legacy", "roleplaying is impossible in 4e", or "4e is t-ball D&D"), and if I remember correctly, on the Paizo forums (and to a lesser extent ENWorld) back when 4e was announced there was considerable outrage voiced by many fans when it was uncertain whether Paizo would make any 4e products because the GSL was an unknown. This sneering comtempt and negativity on the part of some Paizo fans (not the Paizo employees) is one reason I don't visit the Paizo forums anymore.

In any event, its a hypothetical situation and won't happen, so no need for anybody to get their blood pressure up. I'll still buy some Paizo adventures and convert them, and Paizo's reasoning to not support 4e makes sense from their business perspective. There is no need for outrage or emotional responses- with both 4e D&D and Pathfinder around, everybody gets whats they want and is happy! I just feel its a shame their quality products could reach a wider audience, but won't. Hopefully Necromancer Games won't follow Paizo's way of thinking, and will support both 4e AND Pathfinder.

 

[Jack99]

I can't speak as to whether that's true for employees, but it's not the case for most freelancers that I'm aware of. Heck, before my most recent WotC gig, I'd just finished up working on a 4E Blackmoor product for Code Monkey Publishing.

Is that the 4e Blackmoor setting that was announced at some point? Do you have any information at all you can share, Mouse?