D&D 4E 4e vs. Paizo: Mommy, Daddy, please stop fighting!

[Betote]

I guess Mearls and I are going to have to fight this weekend... probably after the cookout. And here I was thinking this was just going to be a weekend of brats, beers, and boardgames... now I need to add Brawl. The fans demand it!

Don't forget the mud, the thongs and the camera.

 

[DaveMage]

I guess Mearls and I are going to have to fight this weekend...

400 quatloos on Bulmahn!

 

[Silversun]

I also do not see Paizo and WOTC kissing and making up.

Ditto on that. There's only two systems I favor: 4E & Pathfinder.

Sure, I don't have a lot of spending money for other fun stuff, but I'm loving every minute of being a gamer.

 

[James Jacobs]

With the new chillaxed GSL I think they could release 4e conversions offically. I'd be interested, as they do produce some good stuff, but it would be a hassle to work up stats for things if I wanted to use it.

I'd be happy with the stats as an electronic download. Real happy, you listening Paizo???

We are indeed listening. Alas... the GSL, although more relaxed than it was, is still a far cry from something I'd want to publish under. It's still subject to change at any moment (that includes whoever's in charge of the GSL 1, 5, 10, or 100 years from now), and still too restrictive for my tastes.

In addition, we at Paizo have put ALL our effort into launching the Pathfinder RPG, and time spent officially supporting another company's game robs what time we have to support our own game; that's just not good business sense.

Also, we don't know 4th edition well enough to produce content for it that would be up to our own standards. I don't want to produce something that's sub-par and riddled with errors.

For similar reasons, I suspect you won't see any "official Pathfinder RPG conversions" of WotC stuff by WotC.

But I love, LOVE hearing that folks are using Paizo stuff in other RPG systems. Every Pathfinder thing that gets converted to 4th edition by fans (or to C&C or Basic D&D or True 20 or Hackmaster or Call of Cthulhu or any other RPG for that matter) increases Pathfinder's awareness, and is a good thing. I'm happy and grateful for all the work the fans are doing in these conversion arenas, since we can't do them ourselves.

 

[RefinedBean]

Competition is good for the industry. It's how new ideas are created, things are improved upon, and leads over-all to more growth.

And man, I'd love to see some huge fights break out at GenCon this year, if only because they'd be hilarious, and so would the newspaper headlines: Fan Friction Follows Fracas Over Fictional Fantasy Fun.

 

[Alzrius]

The fight is not between the companies, it is between the fans. And I also imagine it is on the net. I doubt I'll see a fight about this at Gen Con though it would be cool to see the two sides go at each other all West Side Story like.

Wow, now I really want there to be a musical about fans of Pathfinder vs. fans of 4E at Gen Con. Where do I sign up for the singing and dancing lessons?

 

[Varianor Abroad]

I guess Mearls and I are going to have to fight this weekend... probably after the cookout. And here I was thinking this was just going to be a weekend of brats, beers, and boardgames... now I need to add Brawl. The fans demand it!

Jason Bulmahn

Are you guys the Dire Sharks or the Fiendish Jets?

 

[fireinthedust]

Say, isn't this a little snide (without, I think, your intending it to be)? This sort of subtle sniping - as in "You 4E players get off my lawn, ya punks!" - done by mocking the language plays into dividing the camps or keeping them divided. It's not a horrible mockery and trollish attack, since I'm not trying to be critical of it. I'm just saying that there's this behavior all over, even in an interesting thread like this one.

I understand what you're saying, and it is an interesting question.

however I was alluding to the proper way to get players to join a pbp game; having started pbp (well, back when it was pbem) for well over a decade, experience tells me good writing goes farther in getting people to play.


Paizo Staff/West Side Story/Mearls vs. Buhlman: Uh, yeah, seconding the thongs, mud and web cam.
My only worry is that... well, anyone here seen that episode of Buffy where Xander and Harmony have a slapping fight? Then again, I imagine they both know mean things they can do with d4s.

Seriously: thanks for the settings books, from both sides. I can't afford to buy schlock, and having two great companies pumping out material I can draw from with confidence really helps.

4e Conversions: I saw some miniatures maps for RotRL on the web, actually. If I run the conversions when my group finishes our current run, I'll save up and print them off. I'm finding that I don't like gaming or combat without a visually-pleasing map, and having something like the entire fort for Hookmountain printed off (and usable for other games some day) is really helpful, especially as most of my players are beginners I'm introducing to the game.

The figurines online also look amazing; when I get the cash, I'm planning on splurging for the iconics, certainly, but also the villains. And miniatures work for any game!

 

[Dragonhelm]

I love the 4e rules, but the Pathfinder campaign setting is one of the best sourcebooks I've read.

Really, it's awkward for me. I worry that I'll get flamed, but I have to say it: I love the work that's coming out of both companies right now. I feel like I'm a part of a silent minority, but I've discovered that I'm really enjoying what both sides are coming up with.

Me too! It sometimes seems a bit awkward being a fan of competing systems, but really, you like what you like. You can like music by different artists, so why should this be any different?

In a way, this goes back to an issue I struggle with, which is that I may like more than one system, and I feel guilty for liking both. That's just silly, really. So in my case, I love multiple editions of D&D, including spinoffs such as Castles & Crusades and Pathfinder.

In effect, WOTC got the rules I need (for learning style and gaming group), while Paizo got the flavour and setting.

Bingo. Two great tastes that taste great together.

My dilemma: is it ethical to hope both sides continue their competition for the hearts and minds of the gaming community, simply because so much amazing material has come out of this?

I think it is ethical to wish both sides success, and hope that their competition in the marketplace leads to higher quality products in the future.

But I love, LOVE hearing that folks are using Paizo stuff in other RPG systems. Every Pathfinder thing that gets converted to 4th edition by fans (or to C&C or Basic D&D or True 20 or Hackmaster or Call of Cthulhu or any other RPG for that matter) increases Pathfinder's awareness, and is a good thing. I'm happy and grateful for all the work the fans are doing in these conversion arenas, since we can't do them ourselves.

You got Pathfinder in my Dragonlance!

What's cool about Pathfinder is that it's not just a set of rules, it's a campaign setting. The setting is a gamer's paradise, giving room for many classic modules to be inserted. It's fresh and vibrant. Plus, some monsters have been reinvented in a way that makes them fresh and vibrant. Pathfinder-style goblins and kobolds are my standard for any game world.

What's cool about WotC is that their 4e rules are sparking my imagination in terms of characters. There are tons of new choices for races and classes, and I'm finding that, for the first time in a while, I haven't played it all.

Both offer tools that can be used in a myriad of settings. Say you want to run a Pathfinder game with 4e rules. Not a problem. Or, say you want to run a Dragonlance game using 4e rules and porting in the kobolds and goblins. Voila, you're done and you have an instant success.

Above all, remember that this is a fun little hobby. You don't owe WotC or Paizo a thing. They have to earn your support. So support that which you like. If you like both, then support both. Take those tools that you enjoy, and go out nad have some fun.

Good gaming!

 

[pawsplay]

This is an imaginary dilemma. Right now, stacked next to my computer I have various D&D 3.5 books, Star Wars Saga Edition, GURPS 4e, and Warhammer FRP. I cannot conceive of any fashion in which I am obligated to be a loyalist to one game.