D&D 4E 4e vs. Paizo: Mommy, Daddy, please stop fighting!

[Mournblade94]

The thing is, when you want to find compromise you need to lead by example. 4E fans calling for harmony through more acceptance of 4E isn't really productive.

I completely respect that a lot of people get what they need from 4E and are thrilled by that.

But the other side of that coin exists as well. A lot of people want a game that is not shackled to the limitations of "simple to DM". If we want more harmony, then why not call on WotC to support games for people who want more than simplicity. Obviously it isn't going to happen. I'm not wishing for the impossible here. I'm just saying, if you are calling for peace, leading with how you are going to give is a more inspiring approach.

As for me, if I am forced into picking one or the other between one big happy gaming community and the level of gaming experiece I demand, then Mommy and Daddy are not going to start kissing any time soon.

Most of the Ire towards WOTC comes from older edition gamers that have found a good game unsupported for the new, simpler, shiny game. PAIZO will alleviate that Ire by supporting and improving an already great system.

4e customers have plenty of support, the last thing PAIZO needs to do is add more support and leave the 3rd edition completely unsupported. If the market scews in that direction so be it, I couldn't blame them. The only reason pathfinder would fall short of 4e is the publicity available to WOTC.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

My whole take on the Paizo vs. 4E War is this:

I'm a 4E fan, and I don't have an issue with Paizo itself, or Pathfinder being successful. What I do take issue with at times is Paizo fans expressing unrealistic expectations of the impact of Pathfinder, and disagreeing with Pathfinder's goals and being sceptical of Paizo's ability to deliver some of what was discussed for Pathfinder.

 

[Crothian]

The fight is not between the companies, it is between the fans. And I also imagine it is on the net. I doubt I'll see a fight about this at Gen Con though it would be cool to see the two sides go at each other all West Side Story like.

 

[Varianor Abroad]

Kvantum - good story there guy. I like it because it summarizes the whole apparent (and yet unnecessary) divide very well.

If you mean pbp, I would say that if you advertise on these boards or Giantitp (if it would bloody load) and you do it without using the words "pwn!" or "ur" or "l8r G", you will find people to play in Golarion with you.

Say, isn't this a little snide (without, I think, your intending it to be)? This sort of subtle sniping - as in "You 4E players get off my lawn, ya punks!" - done by mocking the language plays into dividing the camps or keeping them divided. It's not a horrible mockery and trollish attack, since I'm not trying to be critical of it. I'm just saying that there's this behavior all over, even in an interesting thread like this one.

So yes, you can and should use any product in any game any way you want!

 

[Keefe the Thief]

The only reason pathfinder would fall short of 4e is the publicity available to WOTC.

Come again? I don´t get this sentence.

 

[Gothmog]

With the new chillaxed GSL I think they could release 4e conversions offically. I'd be interested, as they do produce some good stuff, but it would be a hassle to work up stats for things if I wanted to use it.

I'd be happy with the stats as an electronic download. Real happy, you listening Paizo???

Yep, I agree 100% vagabundo. While the groups I am playing with and running games for think 4e is the best version of D&D so far, the 4e adventures haven't been all that great (with the exception of the Troll King one- that was fun!). Paizo's main strength are their adventures, and even as a 4e fan with no interest in the Pathfinder ruleset, I still buy their APs and several adventures per year that interest me. I've converted a few of them, and they work great in 4e! The new, more relaxed GSL means they probably could release a PDF converting their adventures to 4e, and I think if they did so, they would see their sales skyrocket. If the Paizo folks are listening, I've talked to lots of people who would be very interested in this and start picking up more of your products if they even had a 4e PDF conversion document!

However, I don't think we'll ever see this happen. Not because of the Paizo designers, but because of the Pathfinder fans that would start screaming about being "betrayed by Paizo" and calling for the good Paizo employees heads on a platter. Its unfortunate because Paizo produces some incredible quality products, but most gamers can't or won't take the time to convert an adventure (real life has a way of sometimes precluding such activities).

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The fight is not between the companies, it is between the fans. And I also imagine it is on the net. I doubt I'll see a fight about this at Gen Con though it would be cool to see the two sides go at each other all West Side Story like.

I tend to think it's between the fans mostly, too.

Westside story... I might actually have to rewatch that sometime...

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

The new, more relaxed GSL means they probably could release a PDF converting their adventures to 4e, and I think if they did so, they would see their sales skyrocket. If the Paizo folks are listening, I've talked to lots of people who would be very interested in this and start picking up more of your products if they even had a 4e PDF conversion document!

However, I don't think we'll ever see this happen.

I don't think you see this not because of the fan but becasue of paizo. Ya see they are a small company less then 40 folks. Evry person at paizo works on one thing or another that come out monthly, most work on everything at some point. Add this to the fact that they do not know the 4e rules set very well and you can see an issue.

If they make 4e stuff something has to be delayed or stopped. AP takes months or work before they are even written much less layout and such. Add that to the Pathfinder RPG which has stretched them about as far as they can go.

It was known from the get go they could not do both it was one or the other. And not gong 4e was a good thing for them from a business standpoint. but it did leave some folks out. But as a company ya need to make calls what best for you

Maybe someone could talk to them about official conversion documents that was done for true 20 on the first AP

 

[Crothian]

Come again? I don´t get this sentence.

I think he means Wizards gets D&D into shows like How I met Your Mother and Terminator. Pathfinder isn't going to get that kind of exposure.

 

[Jason Bulmahn]

I guess Mearls and I are going to have to fight this weekend... probably after the cookout. And here I was thinking this was just going to be a weekend of brats, beers, and boardgames... now I need to add Brawl. The fans demand it!

Jason Bulmahn