D&D 4E 4e vs. Paizo: Mommy, Daddy, please stop fighting!

[Rechan]

My dilemma: is it ethical to hope both sides continue their competition for the hearts and minds of the gaming community, simply because so much amazing material has come out of this?

No. As said above, one existing and succeeding does not preclude the failure of the other. You're also lucky that the difference between the two games is one edition apart that's easy to translate - they could be wholly successful different systems from one another.

I have a deep respect for Paizo's creative minds. That fluff and adventure design is top notch. I still dislike a little bit of their work (AoW and Shackled City? My God), but their pathfinder fluff is solid as rock.

But more over, I'm happy not because WotC has competition, but because there is something out there as an option for 3.5 players. That those who like that system aren't left in the cold.

My issue is mainly with the fans. Pathfinder fans and 4e fans are getting to be like the Bloods and the Crips. Edition wars aren't getting any better.

For me, it's like your parents getting a divorce after you've moved out of the house. You want both to succeed and go the way that makes them happy. But the rest of your siblings are fighting over who caused the divorce, and trying to take sides.

 

[DaveMage]

Just think of them (Paizo and WotC) as two different companies making two different RPGs. Just because you like GURPS doesn't mean you have to dislike the company making Conan, right?

You can use fluff from a game system you don't like in the game you do like, so I really don't think this is any different.

Winner = gamers.

 

[BryonD]

Just think of them (Paizo and WotC) as two different companies making two different RPGs. Just because you like GURPS doesn't mean you have to dislike the company making Conan, right?

You can use fluff from a game system you don't like in the game you do like, so I really don't think this is any different.

Winner = gamers.

That's it right there.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Its a free market and there is nothing wrong with enjoying products from both (and other!) companies. I have used old Basic/AD&D products with several different editions and with GURPS. (GURPS Keep on the Borderlands is NASTY tough )

Buy what interests you, use it with whatever you like and enjoy.

 

[Obryn]

I could be wrong, but as I read it, any acrimony is at least 90% in the imaginations of the fans, not in the minds of the designers and developers.

-O

 

[fireinthedust]

I think that this sums up my feelings towards Paizo very well. I hope they succeed, but I do not really need any of hte products they are currently producing. Nor do I see myself needing them, unless Ptahfinder becomes big enough it is easy to find groups playing it online. I am just not confident that that will happen.

If you mean pbp, I would say that if you advertise on these boards or Giantitp (if it would bloody load) and you do it without using the words "pwn!" or "ur" or "l8r G", you will find people to play in Golarion with you.


As for settings: I have a pile of books; I reward myself for milestones by buying a book (now miniatures... oh, how I want an affordable beholder!), so I've collected not just Paizo and WOTC but also various third party publishers.
Much of the material I won't use in its current form. I may convert it to 4e, or one encounter, or take ideas and run with them for almost-similar homebrew setting stuff.

 

[vagabundo]

With the new chillaxed GSL I think they could release 4e conversions offically. I'd be interested, as they do produce some good stuff, but it would be a hassle to work up stats for things if I wanted to use it.

I'd be happy with the stats as an electronic download. Real happy, you listening Paizo???

 

[Halivar]

Wotc could use some strong competitors. I really hope pathfinder will succeed.

FWIW, the Greg Leeds phone interview suggests WotC feels the same way you do.

I could be wrong, but as I read it, any acrimony is at least 90% in the imaginations of the fans, not in the minds of the designers and developers.

This. I've seen multiple WotC folks mention that they are also Pathfinder subscribers.

 

[timbannock]

Just wanted to post here and say: I agree, and thanks for the Burnt Offerings conversion!!

I continuously look fondly at Paizo's setting book, but I use 4e rules. Not to say you can't do both, but I'm also running Greyhawk currently, so I don't need a setting at the moment. If I do, it will definitely be Paizo's. They are the masters of D&D fluffy goodness.

 

[kitsune9]

Ok, and I'm prefacing this by saying I don't think the companies have been at all opposed to one another (at least publicly) but that I've observed what I imagine to be a healthy level of venom mostly among certain fans of either edition.


The reason I'm starting this thread is that I found I'm caught in a really difficult spot and I want to express it:

I love the 4e rules, but the Pathfinder campaign setting is one of the best sourcebooks I've read.

Really, it's awkward for me. I worry that I'll get flamed, but I have to say it: I love the work that's coming out of both companies right now. I feel like I'm a part of a silent minority, but I've discovered that I'm really enjoying what both sides are coming up with.

As a DM I can't fathom running a 3.x campaign, certainly not straight out of any one book. 4th Edition is the best game to run for me, as it's relatively simple to come up with encounters and stories that I enjoy. Moreover, the R&D has come out with every class (except psionics and necromancers) that I need for running old school D&D adventures that I enjoy. Monster design means I can whip up a lot of unique solo or elite monsters of a particular role, and just say "yeah, that's Halaster Blackcloak" and Bam, I'm done.
Even the setting information is great fun, and of the pile of books I've grabbed, I'm happy to say there hasn't been a flop yet.

However, while I don't like the rules set for 3.x, I am so glad that Paizo still exists. My subscription to Dragon and Dungeon magazines was just in time to roll over into Pathfinder. I had a financial scaling back, and hadn't planned to run a 3.x game since 4e came out; I didn't renew, though I did buy several of their other books for a good read. Part of that was that the rules seemed like beating a dead horse, despite a genuine enthusiasm about the material that was coming out.
Then I picked up the Pathfinder Campaign setting. Just recently, this week. Virtually no rules, mostly flavour and crunchy setting info. I'm really blown away, and experiencing a real frustration that this is the campaign setting I would love to play in, but not the rules set. I'm going to work the money to be able to buy up all the other setting books, I think, and some of the modules. Having bought a number of the other AP books, I've decided that Paizo really has a powerhouse of incredibly talented people out there.

In effect, WOTC got the rules I need (for learning style and gaming group), while Paizo got the flavour and setting.

My dilemma: is it ethical to hope both sides continue their competition for the hearts and minds of the gaming community, simply because so much amazing material has come out of this?
I feel like a kid whose parents got divorced, but is getting piles of gifts from both sides; however, I have to leave one set at one parent's house, the other at the other's.

There's nothing ethical or unethical in buying the gaming products that you want to get. Both companies should be putting out great products to earn your business. If you like 4e rules and Paizo's campaign setting, go for it and tell us about your campaign in a blog or story hour!

Happy gaming!