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D&D 4E 4e vs. Paizo: Mommy, Daddy, please stop fighting!

Jack99

Adventurer
Some guy going under the name "Scott Betts" on the Paizo message boards has been doing an unofficial 4E translation of the Rise of the Runelords book "Burnt Offerings". Most of his posts are in the 4th ed D&D section of the Paizo message boards.

So far Betts seems to have done a good job, judging from my DM's dry run of Betts' 4E translation documents in our once-a-month 4E game based on the "burnt offerings" book.

He posts here also, calling himself Danager or Danmager or something along those lines. And yes, he does excellent work.

As for the OP' - I agree completely. I love 4e and would never play (DM) another game right now, but if I ever used an established campaign world to run my games (I prefer homebrew) it would definitely be in Golarian. It's by far my favorite setting, and even though I will never play Pathfinder, I do buy most of their setting books.

As for the divorce thing - I have myself grown up as part of perhaps the friendliest divorce possible, where the parents still are extremely good friends and see each other as couples and have been for many years now, ever since the divorce.. So a divorce does not have to be a bad thing, it it makes both parents happier ;)
 

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andozane

Explorer
+1 to the wishful thinking.

4e just has so many good things going for it from a DM's viewpoint. I've definitely had tons of misgivings about it, but now having played several sessions, and with them having a larger line up of books out, it truly is a great system IMO.

If the Adventure Path's started coming out for 4e, I'd re-up my subscription in a heartbeat.
 

Starfox

Hero
My dilemma: is it ethical to hope both sides continue their competition for the hearts and minds of the gaming community, simply because so much amazing material has come out of this? I feel like a kid whose parents got divorced, but is getting piles of gifts from both sides; however, I have to leave one set at one parent's house, the other at the other's.

Capitalism FTW!

I agree with most of what you said. Seriously, this is what competition in the marketplace is all supposed to be about.
 

Dannager

First Post
He posts here also, calling himself Danager or Danmager or something along those lines. And yes, he does excellent work.
That'd be me, and thank you for the kind words!

Easy links to material for those who want to take a look at it:

Conversion project blog

Compiled conversion PDF for Burnt Offerings

Paizo update tracking thread

Burnt Offerings and The Skinsaw Murders are both complete. The Hook Mountain Massacre is roughly 2/3rds complete. A PDF document designed to mirror the original published adventure document is available for Burnt Offerings, and the compiled PDF for The Skinsaw Murders should be available within the next couple of days (if not tonight).

On topic, as you can probably guess I'm one of those who wants to see both companies do well for themselves. While official 4e Paizo APs would be ideal, and official 4e conversions of Paizo APs would be nice, the community is resourceful enough to make do. I'm far from the only person fiddling with Paizo APs in 4th Edition.
 
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delericho

Legend
My dilemma: is it ethical to hope both sides continue their competition for the hearts and minds of the gaming community, simply because so much amazing material has come out of this?

Of course. As long as there isn't a winner, they're both in business, employing their staff, and producing some of their best material. Basically, everyone wins. (Plus: you don't actually owe either company anything, any more than they owe you the books that you want them to produce. It's business - they offer something to the market, and you buy, or not, as suits you.)

Besides, as MichaelSomething points out, you can always use the Pathfinder setting with the 4e rules.

As for myself: I found 4e not to my taste. Therefore, I'm really glad that Paizo are still around, and the 3.5e will have a successor in Pathfinder. But that doesn't mean I wish WotC or 4e ill, any more than I do Exalted, or Traveller, or any of the many other games I don't play.
 

Kvantum

First Post
It will be interesting to see if Eberron 4E has a similar welcome to what we saw when FR was released. (ie very strongly mixed)
I'd be quite surprised if it's that bad. The controversy over 4e FR was due to all the changes being made to a setting that had been known and loved and kept (fairly) consistent for nearly 20 years; Eberron has only had 5 years and one game edition's worth of material and development.



In terms of the whole divorce idea, I kind of pictured it like this: Dad looked around at the house the family was living in and saw a lot of problems, cracks in the walls, uneven floors, etc. He got a great new job offer overseas and wanted to take the whole family with him. Mom was mostly willing, but then Dad said that once they got there, he was going to drive the family everywhere himself, even though Mom had done it for years now, and was probably a better driver than Dad. Without driving, Mom wasn't going to have a lot to keep herself busy.

Some of the kids were big time baseball fans, and just loved the sport, but Dad said that where the family was moving, baseball just wasn't played, and he wasn't going to change that, he thought it caused too many problems, and not every one of their kids was a good baseball player. Some of the kids cheered the prospect of a move since they hated baseball and thought it was stupid and boring, and some of the kids thought baseball was a fundamental part of life. Mom was a big fan of the game, though, and loved to cheer her kids on if they wanted to play. Sure, people played a somewhat similar game (cricket, to keep the analogy going?) over where Dad wanted to move to, but it just wasn't the same sport no matter what sort of label they tried to put on it.

Between the unexpected taking away of a major part of her day and the kids who were going to be unhappy over in the new country with their new choice of sports, Mom was just kind of stuck. She'd always been living in Dad's house, comfortably, but none of the equity was actually in her name, regardless of how well she decorated the house or added on nice little pieces here and there.

The thing of it was, though, almost all of their current house was going to be left standing after they left, for anyone to come and live in. Sure, it needed work, there were flaws in the structure, absolutely, but to Mom's eyes, it wasn't an unlivable house, it was still home, even if it did need a little maintenance. The kids who wanted to play baseball could still play baseball, Mom could still drive the kids where she wanted to, and whatever happened to the house this time would be Mom's and Mom's alone; Dad couldn't claim any of the credit for this one.

The divorce was ugly, no two ways about it. A lot of the kids chose sides and heaped hatred and abuse on their siblings that chose the other parent, while others sat and tried to convince themselves that "they'll get back together, they just have to see that they really need each other." But a year later, there's no signs of reconciliation. Mom's getting ready for the final version of repairs she'd drawn up for the old house, (the flaws in the place still obvious to any who looks, but the kids who stayed just don't really care,) still driving a bunch of kids around to baseball practice, and living her life on her terms, for the first time in her life. Dad's overseas, doing well at his new job, putting out cool stuff on the internet, and watching over the majority of their kids, some of them happily playing cricket instead of old, boring baseball. The new house looks pretty, some might say a bit bland or artificial (Dad's never been that good of a decorator, that's been Mom's thing), but most of the kids are too busy enjoying all the new rooms to care, if they even do. Then there are those few kids that are still waiting for Mom to come to her senses, see just how much better Dad's new house is than their old one, and to come begging for Dad to take her back, whether the house is hers or not.
 
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BryonD

Hero
The thing is, when you want to find compromise you need to lead by example. 4E fans calling for harmony through more acceptance of 4E isn't really productive.

I completely respect that a lot of people get what they need from 4E and are thrilled by that.

But the other side of that coin exists as well. A lot of people want a game that is not shackled to the limitations of "simple to DM". If we want more harmony, then why not call on WotC to support games for people who want more than simplicity. Obviously it isn't going to happen. I'm not wishing for the impossible here. I'm just saying, if you are calling for peace, leading with how you are going to give is a more inspiring approach.

As for me, if I am forced into picking one or the other between one big happy gaming community and the level of gaming experiece I demand, then Mommy and Daddy are not going to start kissing any time soon.
 
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Dice4Hire

First Post
I also do not see Paizo and WOTC kissing and making up.

Which is fine with me. Wotc could use some strong competitors. I really hope pathfinder will succeed.
 

Mottokrosh

First Post
I have been picking up a whole bunch of Pathfinder books and used their art, ideas, and adventures as inspiration for my 4E campaign. Their "fluff" really is outstanding, but I do so much prefer the 4E "crunch". (Largely because I have been playing 3/3.5 from the start, and I really enjoy the change, and "reset" of expectations.)

I too wish dearly for a 4E Pathfinder.

I'm slightly torn about buying lots of current Pathfinder material, as I worry that I'm encouraging them to go on with 3.5/3.75, when that couldn't be further from the truth, but at the same time I want them to do well so they can keep bringing out great books. I hope they realise that not every sale of theirs is a vote for the OGL or Pathfinder rules!
 

Dice4Hire

First Post
voice220;4797248I hope they realise that not every sale of theirs is a vote for the OGL or Pathfinder rules![/QUOTE said:
I think that this sums up my feelings towards Paizo very well. I hope they succeed, but I do not really need any of hte products they are currently producing. Nor do I see myself needing them, unless Ptahfinder becomes big enough it is easy to find groups playing it online. I am just not confident that that will happen.
 

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