Necromancer Games-update by Orcus

[thecasualoblivion]

I don't think it was just the GSL. I think Clark was assuming more of a continuation of the open gaming environment of the 3E era, as Necromancer games prided itself on the old school feel. 4E is a very specific sort of game, far more so than any previous edition of D&D. It doesn't really lend itself to alternate interpretations or the "old school" Necromancer feel, and the GSL basically disallows you to reinvent the wheel with 4E. So the combination of the GSL being restricting in a business/IP sense, 4E being contrary to the "flavor" of Necromancer, and the GSL restricting the ability to rewrite 4E failed to live up to Necromancer's expectations.

 

[rogueattorney]

There's always the OGL games... S&W, OSRIC, and Labyrinth Lord...

1st edition rules AND 1st edition feel.

WotC can't revoke the OGL.



Sorry, I just had to.

 

[Jack99]

This is sad news. Expected (although not for the reasons stated), but sad.

 

[Dire Bare]

I have to admit, I'm chuckling to myself right now.

4E's BIGGEST cheerleader isnt/cant do proucts for it, because WOTC screwed around to much getting the GSL out and properly done?

The irony is astounding, especially in light of some of Orcus's words in the GSL forum, once the GSL was finally redone....what was his words again?

I don't think there is anybody, including anybody from WotC, who would try to argue that they didn't seriously drop the ball when it comes to the GSL.

But not everyone tends to be meanspirited about it.

Business mistakes happen. Oh well. I'm sure that there are WotC employees just as frustrated as Clark and a few more directly responsible for the mess that are kicking themselves now. And I'm sure at the higher levels there are some who still don't get it. It is the way of the modern corporation, and WotC is not immune.

The company still remains the top entertainment company in tabletop gaming, and deservedly so. They still end up taking a huge percentage of my money, that's for sure.

 

[carmachu]

I don't think there is anybody, including anybody from WotC, who would try to argue that they didn't seriously drop the ball when it comes to the GSL.

But not everyone tends to be meanspirited about it.

One could argue that might have been more than dropping the ball, considering how the first GSL looked, and more on how it was handled.

But thats just speculation.

Business mistakes happen. Oh well. I'm sure that there are WotC employees just as frustrated as Clark and a few more directly responsible for the mess that are kicking themselves now. And I'm sure at the higher levels there are some who still don't get it. It is the way of the modern corporation, and WotC is not immune.

The company still remains the top entertainment company in tabletop gaming, and deservedly so. They still end up taking a huge percentage of my money, that's for sure.

Wotc doesnt anymore from me, but I hope you enjoy the edition your using.

But I can say I'm exactly sad. I'll miss some of the products Necro put out, but frankly everyone else had plans and contingencies...while he cheerlead and waited. And while the naysayers spoke, he poo pooed them down.

The irony here is pretty striking.


Hunter: yeah well, sometimes I'm not that nice.

 

[Dark Mistress]

carmachu to be fair necro has a contingency plan as well. Support Pathfinder, which they will now do. How much is still left to be seen.

And I don't think his desire is any less than it was. I think it is more the market is very soft, so much so that a small company like Necro might struggle to even break even on 4e print products. Because distributors and such are not that interested because of the general slow down.

I am not saying that is because of 4e, the economy and peoples bank accounts are taking a beating. So when things get tight, hobbies are the first thing to go as far as spending for most people. I think it is more a combination of issues that has lead us to the point we are in, which has left Necro in the position they now find themselves.

 

[Treebore]

edit --- Hrm, didn't realise that about PoL II. OK, well maybe that one *is* slightly 4e-ish. The first one, not one bit.

Yeah, your right, "points of light" doesn't relate to 4E marketing at all.

 

[carmachu]

carmachu to be fair necro has a contingency plan as well. Support Pathfinder, which they will now do. How much is still left to be seen.

While supporting pathfinder is great, hell its the path I choose, it doesnt really help the 4e fans that waited patiently for them. That doesnt help them.

And I don't think his desire is any less than it was. I think it is more the market is very soft, so much so that a small company like Necro might struggle to even break even on 4e print products. Because distributors and such are not that interested because of the general slow down.

I am not saying that is because of 4e, the economy and peoples bank accounts are taking a beating. So when things get tight, hobbies are the first thing to go as far as spending for most people. I think it is more a combination of issues that has lead us to the point we are in, which has left Necro in the position they now find themselves.

Things were pretty tight back in 2001/2002 around. Hobbies tend to be inelastic(there's a discussion over in GW lands about that) as the hobby stretches your entertainnment budget- so long as you get off the constant buying wagon.


Someone pointed something out elsewhere-even before 4e announcement they were slowing down. Have you looked at their upcomiong product page? The first few entries have an assigned release date of Sep 2006 (Shades of Grey, Mother of All Treasure Tables, and Tower of Jhedovar). I thought the last was released already? The next set includes a bunch of "To be announced" and others from 2006-2007. Nothing with a release date from 2008 forward.

 

[AllisterH]

Wouldn't one of the sources for hesitation on the part of players and DMs on picking up 3pp be the fact that it isn't integrated into the char builder?

Looking at various online 4e games, one of the most common descriptions is "all char builder -legal/char builder -legal no forgotten realms/dragon etc"

I don't think the 4e char builder should be discounted in how players approach the game...

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I looked on Clark's announcement as hopeful news, because I think highly of some of the NG adventures, but have zero interest in 4e. I'm one of those guys who would like to see "1e feel with 1e rules" (or any retro-clone rules, for that matter) from NG. NG shifting away from 4e makes that more likely (even if it's still unlikely -- I'm not holding my breath).

The NG material that I liked the best was mostly stuff that originally came from Bill's (I think) 1e campaign, to begin with: Rappan Athuk, Demons & Devils, Tomb of Abysthor. That's the kind of stuff I'd like to see: site-based stuff that I can insert into my game, statted out with TSR-era D&D rules. Doesn't even need to be big modules. I'd be happy with smaller PDF and POD modules. What were the page counts for classics like G1, D2, A4, B4, et cetera?