Necromancer Games-update by Orcus

[Hunter In Darkness]

Why? Didn't 3rd party stuff glut the market and the lack of quality control from some 3PPs damage the brand? Orcus even implies that there's not much appetite for it from distributors and retailers. In light of that, maybe the GSL is working as intended i.e. WOTC not forfeiting control over the latest edition under the D&D brand.

I think I can explain this. You ever had a few shelves of product you paid for you can't sale?

Ya see it wans't the d20 glut that hurt. Back when Wotc pulled out 3.5 shelves everywhere now had loads of stuff that where outdated and pretty much unsellable. So they take the lose and stop looking or carrying much 3pp as well to risky.

We go forward a few years some names are still pushing stuff out and have fainly started to make headway into stores again.

Then Wotc drops the 4e bombshell, something that they have told everyone was year and years away. And 3pp everywhere have product no one will touch as its now outdated and to a "dead" edition. stores take big loses on 3pp and so do many of the company.

Sales leading up to 4e where awful and well ya can't blame folks for buying something that is not the current edition. and you can't blame stores for not wanting to touch 3pp

So there ya have it, the risk of having unsellable stock is just to great much less for a 3pp that have not been pushing it out monthly

 

[WereSteve]

On a tangent-Goodman is hopefully going to be re-releasing the older stuff on PDFs again soon. Makes me kind of curious about how well their 4E stuff is selling, im probably reading too much into that though.

Goodman should be re-releasing the older DCC modules in PDFs ... especially since the Judges Guild modules released through Goodman Games have already been updated and re-released.

 

[Henry]

Assuming he gets to read this, I'll say: Clark, thanks for trying to do things the right way, even if the end result didn't work out as planned. I don't think WotC corporate wanted a "Golden Age", they wanted a "Profitable Age" -- even if the enthusiasm is not as it once was.

I've even turned off a little to 4E myself, lately -- after the good basic tools I saw in the first three core books and the PHB2, I really haven't seen seen much I've wanted, myself. The rest, I've been able to create myself, and the "new" innovations from Wardens, to the stuff in Arcane power, to Adventurer's Vault, most of it has left me a bit blank.

I've even given up my DDI subscription because not only have I not had much use for it this year, but I got too much hassle when I had to change my subscription. I just said "screw it" and didn't re-subscribe.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

I think I can explain this. You ever had a few shelves of product you paid for you can't sale?

Ya see it wans't the d20 glut that hurt. Back when Wotc pulled out 3.5 shelves everywhere now had loads of stuff that where outdated and pretty much unsellable. So they take the lose and stop looking or carrying much 3pp as well to risky.

We go forward a few years some names are still pushing stuff out and have fainly started to make headway into stores again.

Then Wotc drops the 4e bombshell, something that they have told everyone was year and years away. And 3pp everywhere have product no one will touch as its now outdated and to a "dead" edition. stores take big loses on 3pp and so do many of the company.

Sales leading up to 4e where awful and well ya can't blame folks for buying something that is not the current edition. and you can't blame stores for not wanting to touch 3pp

So there ya have it, the risk of having unsellable stock is just to great much less for a 3pp that have not been pushing it out monthly

You are missing a few steps here. 3.5E's hostility towards 3pp goes beyond simply changing the game and making older books incompatible. Before 3.5, D&D wasn't as focused on selling splatbooks of player options. In base 3E, we had the Sword and Fist et cetera line of books which paled in comparison to what 3pp were publishing. These books were popular, and when 3E was revised and relaunched WotC dove into the splatbook business, not only creating compatibility issues but creating their own books in competition with 3pps. You also discount the damage that the 3pp community did to itself.

 

[Rechan]

I'm sad that Clark isn't going to do what he wants, especially considering how much enthusiasm he had.

 

[Rechan]

You're also forgetting the early 3e days. There was a glut. A huge splashing wave. And quite simply, there was a lot of schlock.

 

[Badwe]

The issues we describe in this thread are not unique to RPGs. I work for a distribution company that is desperate to shrink inventory during these recession times. Look at GM/Chrysler dealers left holding the bag with all the cars nobody wants. As discretionary (really, any spending) shrinks, it becomes almost toxic to have inventory because you're paying to hold something that might not sell quickly enough.

Someone mentioned 3e being more deserving of 3pp, despite being an avid fan of 4e I would be inclined to agree. To be blunt, when I played 3e I was always underwhelmed by the quality of the splatbooks and supplements being released by WotC. Aside from learning to hone the ruleset over the course of 4e, they learned some valuable business model lessons as well. The success of the 3.5 PHB2 obviously did not go unnoticed. WotC simply has a very shrewdly concocted 4e release schedule and system of modules/supplements/sourcebooks that really comes off as high-value compared to what was usually coming out in the 3e era.

In turn, that sets the bar of quality higher for potential 3pp. It probably also means their potential customers are spending more of their budget on the 1pp first. Now, the onus falls on the 3pp to convince the customer they should grow their entertainment budget. GSL aside I would say the business model of 4e is less friendly to 3pp, there are fewer cracks waiting to be filled in, almost no "low hanging fruit" missed opportunities.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

And the fact that no Character Builder support would be a deal breaker from a surprising number of people. I know people who won't use WotC stuff until the builder has it.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Oh yes I recall the..humm lets just say I recall the glut. Still glut didnt not have as much to do with it as the edition switch.

The stores do not read the book, how are they to know it's junk. What they saw was good sales..ok sales then ed change and all this stuff I can't sale

But hey look the Wotc stuff is saleing but I can't sale the 3pp stuff. So a few years later re do it again without the glut so who do they stop carrying?

Not blaming Wotc for the issue but there it is. All the store knows it If I stock all this and they change it who is going to buy my stock?

 

[Draksila]

Oh yes I recall the..humm lets just say I recall the glut. Still glut didnt not have as much to do with it as the edition switch.

The stores do not read the book, how are they to know it's junk. What they saw was good sales..ok sales then ed change and all this stuff I can't sale

But hey look the Wotc stuff is saleing but I can't sale the 3pp stuff. So a few years later re do it again without the glut so who do they stop carrying?

Not blaming Wotc for the issue but there it is. All the store knows it If I stock all this and they change it who is going to buy my stock?

Not saying that you don't have a valid point, Hunter, but I know that locally the reason the stores had leftover 3pp product in the first place was because it was crap. A couple of books sold to very specific parties, but for the most part the local store owners were stuck with product from 2000 that just wouldn't go anywhere. You picked up one of these 3pp books, flipped through it, and immediately got the impression that a 14-year-old with more money and enthusiasm than imagination had thrown these things out on the shelf. Being that our local game shops were run by tabletop gamers, they were well aware of the fact that what they'd ordered had been overhyped and now they were stuck with poorly-written schlock. When our local gaming shops went under (due mostly to being unable to compete with Amazon's prices and shipping), the vast majority of their third party stock was the same stuff they'd had for five years... and wouldn't even sell at fire sale prices.

The initial 3pp glut, the craptastic quality it flooded the market with, and the brand degradation that it caused were a real concern... at least in this market. I'd be very surprised if WotC's caution with the current license didn't come from at least a bit of an attempt at reclaiming their brand name's geek cred.