Wizard Build Suggestions (PHB ONLY!)

[Elric]

I keep hearing this, yet despite having actually built several warlords, the only noteworthy use of basic attacks have all been basic melees in my experience. Could you give an example where Magic Missile could be used?

Hail of Steel, by far the best level 17 Warlord encounter power around. I think several Paragon powers (but few heroic ones) grant basic attacks as opposed to basic melee attacks.

 

[Nifft]

Spell Accuracy. Or the laymans method, attack one guy on one side of the fight. And getting your Familiar adjacent is merely a move action.

Sure, but you could also have taken Skill Training (Stealth) and used that move action to Hide, granting your attack +2 via Combat Advantage.

+0 to +3, and +3 to +5 against a single target.

You're double-counting here. The baseline for a Tiefling is +1 vs. bloodied targets. That's not power creep, that's just the core race.

But you do have a point, it's fairly easy to get the Bloodhunt bonus to stack. Sucks for Wizards, of course, since it's useless vs. Minions, but pretty sweet for a Sorcerer or Warlock.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jhaelen]

Unless ... you MC'ed wizard and have 4 orbs of karmic resonance ...
That's approximately 8 rounds of not being able to attack.
By the time it manages to make a save, it's dead.

This isn't hardcore tweaking, this is a battle cleric + 1 item.

I've seen several other examples involving multiples of (low-level) items that end up being (too) powerful. I wonder if there should be some restriction regarding how often someone can be affected by the same item in a single encounter?

 

[KarinsDad]

Sure, but you could also have taken Skill Training (Stealth) and used that move action to Hide, granting your attack +2 via Combat Advantage.

Sure. On the other hand, Combat Advantage is so easy to get (even easier with the splat books) that it's up about half of the time in Paragon anyway. Distance Advantage and the right group and the spell caster is easily +2 half of the time versus single target.

 

[Nifft]

Sure. On the other hand, Combat Advantage is so easy to get (even easier with the splat books) that it's up about half of the time in Paragon anyway. Distance Advantage and the right group and the spell caster is easily +2 half of the time versus single target.

Hmm, I wonder if Distant Advantage could be seen as creep for this scenario. It's certainly easier to trigger than hiding.

(But even if it is power creep, it's not much power creep.)

Cheers, -- N

 

[KarinsDad]

Hmm, I wonder if Distant Advantage could be seen as creep for this scenario. It's certainly easier to trigger than hiding.

(But even if it is power creep, it's not much power creep.)

By itself it is not much power creep. Totally agree there.

It's the accumulation of many small increases or improvements that result in the PCs getting stronger, but the NPCs staying at the same relative level.

And, that might be ok in the long run, especially due to the to hit and defense math bugs. Heroic level is easier, mid-Paragon on up might require the accumulation of many small power creeps to address the grind issue.

 

[Nifft]

By itself it is not much power creep. Totally agree there.

It's the accumulation of many small increases or improvements that result in the PCs getting stronger, but the NPCs staying at the same relative level.

And, that might be ok in the long run, especially due to the to hit and defense math bugs. Heroic level is easier, mid-Paragon on up might require the accumulation of many small power creeps to address the grind issue.

Well, if the NPCs fall a bit behind due to stacking conditional bonuses, the fix is trivial: ban Expertise.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Destil]

It would most likely be hard to stack a lot of conditionals at once. A feat that (when read correctly) gives +2 against opponents marking you is, for instance, considered very weak (could be decent with a bard, though).

If anything you'll more often be able to get a bonus, rather than stacking lots of bonuses. Though some of the unnamed bonuses are pretty general and easy...

Distant advantage isn't as strong as a full frost-cheese suite of feats/items and it's redundant with it. If anything I think the power creep there is minor and only happens in heroic tier (since anyone who really wants this will have taken the frost option anyway, which is both more expensive and more powerful).

 

[KarinsDad]

Distant advantage isn't as strong as a full frost-cheese suite of feats/items and it's redundant with it. If anything I think the power creep there is minor and only happens in heroic tier (since anyone who really wants this will have taken the frost option anyway, which is both more expensive and more powerful).

It might not be as strong, but it isn't necessarily redundant either. Hitting a foe 60% of the time with a cold attack means that 40% of the time, Wintertouch is not doing anything. And of course, Wintertouch rarely does anything in round one. Distant Advantage can add in the +2 in some percentage of that 40+% with the proper allies, bumping up the combat advantage to maybe 80% or 90% of rounds.

 

[Nifft]

It might not be as strong, but it isn't necessarily redundant either. Hitting a foe 60% of the time with a cold attack means that 40% of the time, Wintertouch is not doing anything. And of course, Wintertouch rarely does anything in round one. Distant Advantage can add in the +2 in some percentage of that 40+% with the proper allies, bumping up the combat advantage to maybe 80% or 90% of rounds.

IMHO Wintertouched is just like Distant Advantage: it's a feat you should discuss with your party.

If the Rogue and the Fighter both have Frost weapons, all three of you should take Wintertouched + Lasting Frost, since the probability of Wintertouched being useful skyrockets when there are multiple sources for vulnerability.

Cheers, -- N