Aeon (updated 10/9/14)

[Dancer]

Who says? That could be exactly the kind of oronthonian nonsense that the cheshenites reject. I'm not evne sure oronthon's guys are into the whole 'give yourself to your god' thing anymore.

Certainly the old church seemed to be based on a judeochristian modelto some degree, but the new one seems to deal with revelation in a rather different manner.

Is it really legitimate to argue that the cheshenites stand by such a notion? For all we know they're a bunch of posthumans who laugh at the idea of free will.

If that's the case, why have living humans at all? I'm assuming the "soul" is still a valuable commodity in the cheshenite theology. If live humans aren't needed why take pains to not destroy the general populous? At one point in the story it was stated that the difference in oronthonian and cheshenite philosophy was a matter of perspective. That implies some base assumptions, such as the need for living, free willed beings, even if such beings are making their choices under coercion.

Revelation means nothing to a being which isn't free to explore or accept or reject the truth that has been revealed.

 

[catastrophic]

If that's the case, why have living humans at all? I'm assuming the "soul" is still a valuable commodity in the cheshenite theology. If live humans aren't needed why take pains to not destroy the general populous? At one point in the story it was stated that the difference in oronthonian and cheshenite philosophy was a matter of perspective. That implies some base assumptions, such as the need for living, free willed beings, even if such beings are making their choices under coercion.

Revelation means nothing to a being which isn't free to explore or accept or reject the truth that has been revealed.

But revelation is oronthon's deal, not theirs. It's not as if they treat the living with very much respect, and they certainly have plenty of undead around. Having self-replicating slaves make sense, hence the living are still needed.

Second, a difference in perspective doesn't have to mean that they have the same persepctive on things like free will. What followers of oronthon might see as a choice, the cheshinites might see as a great power bendng the will of their worshippers to them, or the inevitable subjugation of weaker beings. What do they care if some airy fairy god dresses it up as a choice, or a reveltion?

 

[RedTonic]

I'm not sure the Cheshnites put much consideration toward free will. Their focus on negation appears to be at least somewhat Adversarial in the context of the campaign, so it may be that free will is reserved for those who have the Will (which generally translates to the power), as Mostin might put it, to effect their desires--put to the test and strengthened by surviving the type of negation Soneillon overcame and embraced. They have no need for converts. They destroy the living with little apparent consideration. Translation into unlife isn't necessarily to create a resource of resilient labor. Nor do they necessarily require energy from ritual sacrifices, though that may be useful as currency in compacting. More than anything, the undead are cannon fodder and psychological weapons against the agents of the Green and Oronthon whom are actually efficacious.

That's just my understanding, and may be enhanced as I reread this storyhour in preparation for my campaign.

 

[Knightfall]

As neither the Rogue's Gallery in its original format nor the Plots and Places forums have endured, the Eadric et al thread is now buried in the General forum. I feel oddly self-conscious about updating it in such a public arena, like wearing only my underpants in public; subsequent crunch will be in this thread instead.

Sep,

I'm sure one of the mods would be willing to move the Eadric et al thread to the D&D Legacy Discussion forum. They did it for me for my Lands of Harqual thread.

 

[grodog]

Bumpage!

 

[Eridanis]

Thanks for the bump, grodog; I hadn't seen Sep's post that Knightfall quoted above. I've moved the Eadric thread to Legacy Discussion, and it can be found here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-legacy-discussion/5652-eadric-et-al-paladin-his-friends.html

 

[grodog]

Thanks for the bump, grodog; I hadn't seen Sep's post that Knightfall quoted above.

Always happy to help!

 

[Siuis]

Grodog, you are the gravitic force which holds me in orbit. You and Cheiro are like the natural forces at work, here. It's impressive, and makes me feel like I'm thanking gravity for gravity-ing... But still. Thanks for the enthusiasm, mates. It's infectious, and you folks are always good for a fill-up when I'm running on E.

 

[grodog]

You're quite welcome, Siuis.

And, post-July-4th BUMP! (And where's Horatio??).

 

[Cheiromancer]

Debt Limit Ceiling Bump!