After DDXP, how are you feeling about D&En?

[avin]

We know that the basic system will be skill-less.

We don't know if there will be an advanced game option with skills, or not.

 

[Charles Dunwoody]

I thought the mechanics from the last seminar were terrible and stupid. So you spend 5 minutes arguing with the DM that you should be able to use your Intelligence on every saving throw ever because you're a wizard, and unnamed wizard magic has your back, while he's in the corner explaining the to the PCs that the orc strongmen use strength because they bathed in the Great Strength Fire...just like all his other high strength monsters. You still get punished for playing an orc wizard. You can seriously trade damage out for "I win" effects which bolster your social abilities too. There is both an attack roll and defense roll, so if you hate long combats, go cry in the corner. And the fact that you need to pick combat OR social skills OR exploration is terrible. And I suspect the fighter is still the useless gimp he was in every non 4e edition.

I hope to be proven wrong.

I played the new D&D at D&D Experience. I'll admit, I was very skeptical but hopeful. Have 4E edition warriors sit down with 3E until I die grognards? Bring back some 1E guys and some kid brand new to RPGs? And we all play together, roleplayers and number crunchers whatever system edition we favor? Yeah right.

I won't talk about the mechanics at all, but I will say our DM smiled through most of the game and at one point he pretended to hand me the gold card out of his wallet based on some BS my character was slinging around. He'd played everything from 1E forward and he was pleased.

On the other hand, a twelve year old (with his Dad) mostly stuck to what his character sheet had. He did better than I did the whole game from a mechinal standpoint. Monte mentioned advantage in the seminar and as he mentioned a player can gain that. But the young guy didn't use that rule (that Monted discussed in the seminar) and he did great.

Monte quote:
What we've done now is we have this thing called "advantage" that a DM can hand out if the players set themselves up with a good description.


We never slowed down, we never argued, and the DM seemed relaxed and energized. We did need to stay engaged and pay attention since the game rolled along quickly based on the design of the adventure. I could see a DM being able to easily moderate the pace.

I've played every edition since AD&D including 4E. Even in rough playtest form, this version was the best. The fact was that I was able to play it with strangers, one from another country and another a kid, and we were all on the same team with some of us yelling out in character and others focusing on what the character could do. And we had a 4E guy that had played all the way to 30th level in his home campaign and another guy who left D&D because of 4E and they worked together well. That was priceless. You can't sell that kind of synergy. Well, you could, if I could pre-order D&D N.

I'd say, wait for the playtest docs before making a decision. Even in rough form, I'm convinced the playtest docs will let everyone make an informed decision. The playtest convinced me hands down that I can't wait to get a game going.

 

[Piratecat]

Except that at 20th level, the list may look like this:

+2 when stealing
+2 when hiding
+2 when in urban areas
+2 when escaping bonds
+2 when climbing masonry walls
+2 to all checks when the target is unaware
+2 against bugbears
+2 against poison
+2 against shadow magic
+2 with dagger of ultimate doom
+2 if the moon is full (favor of the Moon Goddess)

Add to that beneficial magic boosts, bardic songs, circumstance modifiers... the bajillion little bonuses are impossible to add up in actual play.

That would suck. There's a lot I love about 4e, but endless fiddly little modifiers to remember are not one of them.

Frankly, though, I think they're aware of this problem and I think they'll avoid it.

 

[Iosue]

However... who decides what's outrageous? The DM?

Yes. Isn't that his job? To be judge, arbiter, and referee? Does not the DM generally tell you when you have to roll for a skill?

You know, I've long scoffed at the "old school/new school" classifications, but somebody is going to have to explain to me if concept of DM has radically changed since the 80s. It's the same thing with the ability score as saves -- people say its ripe for abuse. Well, that's the DM's job, to adjudicate whether a particular interpretation is viable, based on the groups playstyle. What is kosher for one group may be "abuse" to another. But that shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Charles Dunwoody]

I posted this on rpg.net about the playtest and I think it matters quite a bit for this discussion as well.

I think what amazed me the most in the playtest is that they really did manage to pull in something from all editions, thus making it truly D&D All Editions but also make it a new, modern game that was actually fun to play. My character was the most 4E like but I saw all the editions in what was represented around the table and in the adventure itself. And with that, some of the new ideas mentioned by Wizards in the seminar.

I didn't expect new mechanics (as reported by Wizards in the seminar) and I didn't expect to like them if they showed up. The new mechanics mentioned in the seminar worked at the table in my opinion and I was actually glad to see them. I was surprised that what Wizards talked about in the seminar had never been in the game before.

The weirdest thing was, I meant to really study the sheets, memorize things, try to see how things ticked just to satisfy my curiousity. But I ended up having so much fun I didn't care so much about all the individual rules. That surprised me, I expected a playtest to be a bit dull and unpolished. Instead, I got swept up and lost track of a few hours in a hobby I enjoy. I can't remember the last time that happened to me!

That's why I think when the playtest docs come up people will be able to make an informed decision.

 

[Bobbum Man]

I won't talk about the mechanics at all, but I will say our DM smiled through most of the game and at one point he pretended to hand me the gold card out of his wallet based on some BS my character was slinging around. He'd played everything from 1E forward and he was pleased.

NOBODY broke the NDA all weekend...and it's not like WotC has any way to really enforce it.

What the hell did they threaten you people with???

 

[Yora]

We know that the basic system will be skill-less.

We don't know if there will be an advanced game option with skills, or not.

Yet based on their approach to use modular add-on rules, that is pretty much a given.

 

[avin]

What the hell did they threaten you people with???

I heard Wotc is sending pizzas until NDA is over.

 

[Thalionalfirin]

I played the new D&D at D&D Experience. I'll admit, I was very skeptical but hopeful. Have 4E edition warriors sit down with 3E until I die grognards? Bring back some 1E guys and some kid brand new to RPGs? And we all play together, roleplayers and number crunchers whatever system edition we favor? Yeah right.

I won't talk about the mechanics at all, but I will say our DM smiled through most of the game and at one point he pretended to hand me the gold card out of his wallet based on some BS my character was slinging around. He'd played everything from 1E forward and he was pleased.

On the other hand, a twelve year old (with his Dad) mostly stuck to what his character sheet had. He did better than I did the whole game from a mechinal standpoint. Monte mentioned advantage in the seminar and as he mentioned a player can gain that. But the young guy didn't use that rule (that Monted discussed in the seminar) and he did great.

Monte quote:
What we've done now is we have this thing called "advantage" that a DM can hand out if the players set themselves up with a good description.


We never slowed down, we never argued, and the DM seemed relaxed and energized. We did need to stay engaged and pay attention since the game rolled along quickly based on the design of the adventure. I could see a DM being able to easily moderate the pace.

I've played every edition since AD&D including 4E. Even in rough playtest form, this version was the best. The fact was that I was able to play it with strangers, one from another country and another a kid, and we were all on the same team with some of us yelling out in character and others focusing on what the character could do. And we had a 4E guy that had played all the way to 30th level in his home campaign and another guy who left D&D because of 4E and they worked together well. That was priceless. You can't sell that kind of synergy. Well, you could, if I could pre-order D&D N.

I'd say, wait for the playtest docs before making a decision. Even in rough form, I'm convinced the playtest docs will let everyone make an informed decision. The playtest convinced me hands down that I can't wait to get a game going.

Thanks for the great feedback!

Quick question... you said you liked this the best of all the editions you've played. Previously, what was your favorite edition?

 

[Thalionalfirin]

NOBODY broke the NDA all weekend...and it's not like WotC has any way to really enforce it.

What the hell did they threaten you people with???

Sacrifice to the elder dice gods. probably.