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After DDXP, how are you feeling about D&En?

How do you feel about D&Dnext/5E?

  • Yay!

    Votes: 173 64.1%
  • meh

    Votes: 78 28.9%
  • Ick!

    Votes: 19 7.0%


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Thanks for the great feedback!

Quick question... you said you liked this the best of all the editions you've played. Previously, what was your favorite edition?

Well, until last Wed I would have said 3.0 (I had more fun with it than 3.5 even though 3.5 had a better design). Then I ran AD&D 1E again and that was a blast. But my 4E heroic level Lovecraft campaign was pretty great too.

So, as of today it would be: D&D N, AD&D 1E, D&D 3.0, and then D&D 4E.
 

Mokona

First Post
The stated program with D&D Next is to allow a robust discussion and player/DM input on the game design. The NDA from D&D Experience slightly implies that they aren't really as serious as they should be about crowdsourcing.

Defense rolls are a bad idea and go against 38 years of D&D's success:
Keep It Simple, Stupid (K.I.S.S)

It takes a long time for players to generate feedback. Depending on when they want to release the rules, Wizards of the Coast needed to release the rules to the public already.

To quote a previous post, "I hate the 'waiting' with the passion of a million fiery suns".

The truth is that sales of 4e will suffer because 5e is on its way. That cannot be stopped. Ghostwalk was right before v.3.5 released and it was the worst selling 3rd edition hardback ever released. I think it was a bad supplement but I don't think it was that bad. If there is any attempt to protect 4e sales by controlling the release of the 5e playtest it will fail and, additionally, bad feelings will build up.

I love Wizard of the Coast. I want to help them succeed, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and I will call out any decisions they make that I think will hurt them in the long run.

D&D 4th edition made Dungeons & Dragons a lot better. I'd like to keep, at a conceptual level, all of the improvements while fixing some of the problems. Feywild? Good. Uber-complex combat? Bad. At-will? Good. Epic? Bad. &c.

Your mileage may vary.
 

The truth is that sales of 4e will suffer because 5e is on its way. That cannot be stopped. Ghostwalk was right before v.3.5 released and it was the worst selling 3rd edition hardback ever released. I think it was a bad supplement but I don't think it was that bad. If there is any attempt to protect 4e sales by controlling the release of the 5e playtest it will fail and, additionally, bad feelings will build up.

I love Wizard of the Coast. I want to help them succeed, I will give them the benefit of the doubt, and I will call out any decisions they make that I think will hurt them in the long run.

D&D 4th edition made Dungeons & Dragons a lot better. I'd like to keep, at a conceptual level, all of the improvements while fixing some of the problems. Feywild? Good. Uber-complex combat? Bad. At-will? Good. Epic? Bad. &c.

Your mileage may vary.

D&D Experience looked to be about half the size from the one I went to a couple years back. The hall looked about half size (the dividing wall was up and the time before it was open). Goodman Games was no longer there. The venders selling 4E had it on sale (1/2 price at one table). It could have been a real bummer for D&D players.

But the playtest gave the convention life it otherwise would have been hurting for. While 4E players enjoyed themselves at about two dozen tables, D&D N playtesters gathered around a dozen tables. It gave the convention a boost and brought some non-4E D&D gamers back to the game.

I think Wizards managed everything well. And rolling D&D Experience into Gen Con next year makes sense. Save Wizards a lot of money and really open things up to a bigger audience.
 


Cadfan

First Post
I put down "meh," but I'm an optimistic "meh."

Right now we're getting a lot of talk about the "feel" of the game. Well, talk like that is useless. There's something called the "mind projection fallacy" that everyone should be familiar with. Its when you perceive your own feelings about something as if they were actually traits of the thing itself, instead of your own traits in relation to the thing. For example, you might feel that beets "are gross," as if "are gross" was a trait of beets... but in reality "perceives beets as gross" is a trait of YOU, and the beet just has actual objective traits like chemical composition.

Well, I want less about how it "feels," which is just an attempt at influencing my emotions, and more about what the next edition IS.

What few meaty things I've heard have been a mixed bag. There are some matters of game design where there are objective answers, and I'm not sure they've gotten the few we've heard about correct. For example, rolling your stats is good design in a game with throwaway characters (it would be fine in Paranoia, for example), or in any game where rolling low stats gives you compensation in some other area of your character (you have crap stats, here's a ton of fancy equipment, or something similar). But if neither of those are the case, and if the game is designed so that you hopefully run the same character for several years of gaming, then rolling for stats is just objectively bad game design. There's a reason that no one I knew rolled for stats back in 3e- they "rolled" for stats, where "rolled" in quotation marks means rolling over and over until you and the DM agree that the outcome is fair.

Still, other things have been positive. They claim that you no longer will just have a face character with a sky high bluff skill who does all the talking, and will instead send the person who's thematically appropriate for the job. Well, that would be awesome if it works. And apparently saving throws are more granular, which is probably for the best, although I hope that they're still 4e style duration checks and not earlier edition style defensive rolls. Finally, we've got a constant insistence that things will be modular, and customizable. Again, this is AWESOME if it works. But if it doesn't work it will just spread out the focus of the game until its an incoherent mess. There's a lot to be said for doing a few things very well, instead of a great many things in a mediocre fashion.

I guess what I really want to hear right now is this: What are the BIG IDEAS of 5e? In 3e it was the standardization of math, the OGL, and the idea that character levels could work like legos you could mix and match. In 4e it was the mainstreaming of a tactical combat style that had been growing in popularity in 3e, an effort at stopping rulebooks from being 80% spellcaster materials, and an effort at standardizing mechanics while maintaining flavor through the use of style guides instead of mechanical subsystems. Regardless of what you think of these goals, the games had them, and I think that's admirable. Necessary, even. So what are the big goals of 5e? I guess I'll have to wait and see.

Honestly, I'm probably focusing too much on minor issues, and I'm probably doing it because so little meat has actually been released. Instead, we're just seeing a bunch of marketing material aimed at people who didn't like 4e because it didn't "feel" right to them. Which is fair. Everyone gets marketed to. But I DID like 4e, so all this talk about the "feel" of the game seems just as amorphous and vague and self-oriented as it did half a decade ago. I want meat.
 

kitsune9

Adventurer
So far, I'm in the "meh" camp. I didn't read anything that jumped out to me, but I certainly didn't read anything to make me groan. Still in a holding pattern.
 

Stoat

Adventurer
I'm pretty firmly in the "meh" column right now. Partly that's because 4E still feels fresh to me. I've got a lot of 4E left to play, and I'm not interested in changing things up right now. Maybe I'll feel differently in a year or so when the next iteration drops.

But I'm leery of six "saving throws". I'm not keen on a skill system that boils down to "make a dex check." I don't much care for opposed rolls as the basis for a combat system. I'd rather see feats de-emphasized instead of emphasized. I'd just as soon see the Great Wheel remained lost in the mists of history. And rather than letting them die in a fire, I'd like to see Skill Challenges tweaked and presented in a more playable way.

As to the modular nature of the new game. What's WotC's business model? If I want a more robust skill system, do I have to pay extra for the Robust Skill System Rulebook? If I want to use a battlemat for combat, will the rules be available at launch or will I need to wait six months for the Grid-Based Combat Rulebook?

As to 5E being the edition that heals all wounds and brings everybody together in peace and love? I hope so, and Im cheered that somebody's who has played the game thinks it can happen, but I'll believe it when I see it.
 

Crazy Jerome

First Post
I'm cautiously positive so far. I'm pleasantly surprised by how much I guessed right in the early discussions after the first announcement, and even more surprised by the distribution--the things on the list I totally missed are not the ones I would have predicted as likely! :lol:

One thing that hasn't changed is that I'm sure the group hardest hit, and most annoyed by this editon will be those that want an "official" version, that think everyone will then play the same game, that dream of having more players to pick from if we could all, somehow, enforce a way. This may very well be the "unity" edition, but if so, it will be because play at individual tables will be more diverse than ever before.

It also appears that Monte's inclination to put more power and responsibility back into the hands of the DM (somewhat of a reaction to 3E and later), is in full force. This also adds to diversity at the table from a common, flexible edition.

That parts gets a big thumbs up from me. Every edition destroys some illusions about D&D. This illusion is long past its shelf date.
 

Number48

First Post
The thing that makes me really nervous about playtests is the fact that I intend to have a campaign that lasts years and playtests are very small game. What seems like innovation at a playtest can quickly become old hat in the long run. I understand that WotC employees are going to be running campaigns, but is it a large enough sample size?

I hold out hope, though. Some of the comments really have me puzzled, BTW. Many people want the Great Wheel to go away. How hard is that? It scarcely seems worth mentioning. Don't want it? Okay, don't. Done. No harder than saying there's no elves in your game.

I'm also really starting to feel that this board and the Wizards board has an almost unacceptable bias towards 4E. I'm sure that most people like me, when they tried 4E and it just wasn't right, also started leaving the online forums for D&D. I'm really thinking that people who play Pathfinder and the general gamer who isn't passionate enough to be online everyday discussing are probably going to either love or at least accept 5E.
 

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