Write this game for adults

[technoextreme]

mplexity of Gygax's language that explains its popularity (in some quarters). It's his voice. The man behind the words shines through. His rule books are written like good essays, which don't to remove the author's personality, idiosyncrasies, the "I" from the text. They aren't just instruction manuals, they're this interesting character reading you an instruction manual, using language which would had been comically ill-suited for task if it didn't wind up resonating with so many people.

Lively writing with a point of view doesn't require a surfeit of complexity. It's just that Gary's did.

Honestly Gygax couldn't write very well. Most of the stuff I've read of his tended to contradict itself every other sentence which makes reading his stuff headache inducing.

I also refuse to believe that a young teenager is bamboozled by paragraphs. I was able to handle the horror of the paragraph when I was young, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't a child prodigy or anything.

If they write them like older editions yeah because no one in their right mind writes like that. I was reading some old D&D book that was talking about a Dog Handler and it took me a long time to even figure out that I was reading actual rules and not fluff text. Pathfinder has a similar problem where the rules are so poorly worded that if you had any ability to edit you could condense down three paragraphs into one. You really couldn't make the rules any more confusing and obscure.

 

[Morrus]

Honestly Gygax couldn't write very well. Most of the stuff I've read of his tended to contradict itself every other sentence which makes reading his stuff headache inducing.

If they write them like older editions yeah because no one in their right mind writes like that. I was reading some old D&D book that was talking about a Dog Handler and it took me a long time to even figure out that I was reading actual rules and not fluff text. Pathfinder has a similar problem where the rules are so poorly worded that if you had any ability to edit you could condense down three paragraphs into one. You really couldn't make the rules any more confusing and obscure.

Gygax passed away a few years ago. You don't need to worry about him writing 5th Edition.

Clear, evocative, well-written, well-indexed text is the goal to aim for here.

 

[Hussar]

Gygax passed away a few years ago. You don't need to worry about him writing 5th Edition.

Clear, evocative, well-written, well-indexed text is the goal to aim for here.

Honestly, I think the part I emphasised there is 10000 times more important than anything else.

Game designers and writers, please,

Learn to write an INDEX!

 

[Hussar]

Reading level is about reading comprehension - grammar complexity and breadth of vocabulary. It has *nothing* to do with the subject content of the work. A passage at a given level could be written about unicorns and flowers, or a grisly battle scene.

Let us not confuse "reading level" for "content appropriate for a given age", as they are not by any means the same thing.

I was more responding to the idea that somehow writing at a, say, 8th grade level, equated with The Magic Bus or other children's stories. It most certainly does not. Higher level language is primarily used for academics where semantics is such a huge issue. Use a bigger word because bigger words are frequently less ambiguous. Use complicated sentence structures because you have very limited word count in many academic publications.

However, I most certainly don't want my D&D books written at that level. It should never be difficult to read a rulebook.

 

[technoextreme]

Gygax passed away a few years ago. You don't need to worry about him writing 5th Edition.

Clear, evocative, well-written, well-indexed text is the goal to aim for here.

I guess I'm just tap toeing around the issue. I've never actually seen any evidence that any RPG books were ever evocative to start off with. At their best they are like lollipops. Sugary and sweet without any real sense of substance to them. Then again I'm a fairly abnormal reader.

 

[Sunseeker]

I guess I'm just tap toeing around the issue. I've never actually seen any evidence that any RPG books were ever evocative to start off with. At their best they are like lollipops. Sugary and sweet without any real sense of substance to them. Then again I'm a fairly abnormal reader.

The quality of evocation of any bit of writing I think really depends on how you go into the situation. Much like the age old concept that you will always meet the kind of people you expect to find, the writing in a book will always be the sort of writing you expected.

If you expect DDN to be a dictionary, no matter how flavorful it is, you will likely see all the dictionary aspects and consider it quite encyclopedic instead of evocative.

If you expect DDN to be colorful, evocative, and flavorful, you will likely see all the color, flavor, and evocation, regardless of any attempts of it to be rulesy and encyclopedic.

Your perceptions, as always, determine your reality.

 

[fuindordm]

Two examples of core rule books that were well written, evocative, stylish, and unambiguous:

Earthdawn and 7th Sea (both 1st ed.)

And one reason they stand out is because they weren't afraid to discuss the setting as part of the rules. Neither was Gary. I don't want D&D to give nearly as much detail, as its setting is more generic, but neither is it a blank slate. Talk about the classes, skills, feats, and magic in the world, not just as collections of rules.

 

[Piratecat]

I guess I'm just tap toeing around the issue. I've never actually seen any evidence that any RPG books were ever evocative to start off with. At their best they are like lollipops. Sugary and sweet without any real sense of substance to them. Then again I'm a fairly abnormal reader.

I think the most evocative RPG books I've ever read were Planescape. Holy crap, did those inspire me and fire my imagination.

 

[Lord Mhoram]

Honestly, I think the part I emphasised there is 10000 times more important than anything else.

Game designers and writers, please,

Learn to write an INDEX!

I agree.

When DOJ was in the process of bringing out HERO system 5th, they did a poll and asked the fans did they want the book sooner, or wait an extra month (and/or add price to the book) and get a detailed index. Overwhelming vote for the index - which was 12 pages long, 3 column in normal small type for index. Really set the standard for game indexes as far as I am concerned - plus it had a great Table of Contents as well.

 

[technoextreme]

And one reason they stand out is because they weren't afraid to discuss the setting as part of the rules.

You just listed a bunch of games where the setting and the rules are intertwined. Now show me where Dungeons and Dragons did that with its double digit settings and don't show me a setting book.

I think the most evocative RPG books I've ever read were Planescape. Holy crap, did those inspire me and fire my imagination.

I like Planescape but I really don't like the philosophical underpinnings of that setting. I think the fundamental problem is that there aren't many settings in D&D that didn't steal from a book or some concept which is why when I look at them they really aren't that intriguing. Dungeons and Dragons plot has always been like WoW. Entertaining but really schlocky.