D&D 5E D&D Next: Let's discuss it's mass multimedia goal.

[Rygar]

D&D's not in much danger of going out of business from trying this stuff. In fact, it's possible that D&D's brand is of more value than D&D's TTRPG specifically (given the big "diaspora" that doesn't actively play but fondly regards Gygax's creation), and if so, it makes sense to try to diversify the brand -- if you've maxed out one revenue stream, it's time to explore others. Get the former players to buy a movie ticket or a novel.

Also, past failures are necessary for future success. Iteration -- improving on past processes to avoid previous mistakes -- is the way quality work is produced. It's only a problem if you repeat the same mistakes -- in D&D's case, the mistakes have pretty typically been mismanagement from the outset leading to low-quality product.

If they can stop that, they can get better.

I think it's also worth noting, from a business standpoint, D&D is a much more solid product than Mtg.

Magic the Gathering suffers from one critical flaw, it has a finite number of variables. You have a finite number of phases, finite number of card types, finite range of power/toughness, finite number of possible targets. At some point, they'll have exhausted the number of viable possibilities. They've already had to deal with this, it is what caused the need for equipment and planeswalkers, and they've already had to treat the player himself as a game target even after the introduction of those things. Heck, they've also already had to go to flip cards as well. They're running out of design space.

At some unknown point (I'm *not* doing that math!), Magic the Gathering is going to reach a stage where it is just reprinting the same things endlessly. I don't think anyone can predict if it will be viable after that point.

D&D doesn't suffer those flaws, it is completely open ended and literally allows for an infinite number of arbitrary variables. Over time, assuming no cultural shift that makes those types of games unmarketable, D&D will outlive Mtg.

It is also worth repeating what others have said, the brand awareness for D&D is ridiculously high, and the right idea with the right team could make it a blockbuster product on the movie screen, TV, books, and/or video games. D&D's potential is limitless.

Which is exactly why Hasbro's going after the rights to movies, and why they fought to get the video game rights back.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Thus the problem of "D&D: The Generic". There are a million fantasy worlds out there that owe there lives to D&D, all of them more interesting then their progenitor. Why? Because D&D is a mixing bowl of tropes in which nothing unique stands out.

Ask any player to describe a D&D game without using the rules. He'll talk of elves and dwarves, liches and dragons, wizards, rogues, fighters and clerics. He could just as well describe Dragon Age. Or Warcraft. Or Lodoss Wars. Or early Final Fantasy. What does D&D got locked in it's ip chest that can compete with those?

I think the only way it works is to create a world and characters that screams "D&D". That means consolidating the brand. It's a catch 22.

You're basically right, but I think if WotC is clever about this, they won't try to make a "D&D" movie per se.

Rather, they'll make a Dark Elf Trilogy series of movies. Or a Prism Pentad trilogy. Or whatever. These will all be D&D movies, with the D&D logo on them somewhere, but they won't use D&D as the reference point, they'll use their own worlds. Like, "Dungeons & Dragons Presents: Homeland" or, "The War of the Lance, a Dungeons & Dragons series."

And even without characters, they can pretty easily tap videogames, where you do often create your own character. They could take almost any adventure they publish for the TTRPG and swap it over to a videogame without changing much of it.

Then they can say something like, "The many worlds of D&D have infinite stories in them -- tell your own with the D&D RPG!"

And if they're super DUPER smart, they'll let people sell things on some D&D marketplace and keep an eye on the biggest sellers and then snap THEM up for possible multimedia blitzkriegs as well. So Joe's Home Game, if it proves popular with the fans, might become one of the infinite worlds of D&D, too.

 

[mhensley]

This I don't get. 4e is the least video game friendly rule set. Every class has out of turn powers that work retroactively. There is no way to do this in real time. Turn based video games would work but nothing close to real time.

See http://www.cardhunter.com/ for how to make a 4e-like turn based game. It's really quite fun.

 

[Dausuul]

I think it's also worth noting, from a business standpoint, D&D is a much more solid product than Mtg.

Say what? D&D was on the brink of bankruptcy when Wizards picked it up. Part of the reason 4E made such radical changes was that Hasbro was threatening to mothball the D&D brand. Now they're going all-out to woo back the players who left over 4E, because they really need that player base back; when they left, new players didn't come to replace them in sufficient numbers. MMOs have been eating D&D's lunch for the last decade. And that's for the 800-pound gorilla (before Pathfinder, at least) of the tabletop world.

Meanwhile, Magic has been a cash cow for Wizards for the last 20 years. Magic revenues were what enabled Wizards to rescue D&D when TSR collapsed. It's had ups and downs, but at no point did it flirt with the kind of disasters that have threatened D&D. It's got no problem pulling in new players and keeping old ones engaged.

Magic the Gathering suffers from one critical flaw, it has a finite number of variables. You have a finite number of phases, finite number of card types, finite range of power/toughness, finite number of possible targets. At some point, they'll have exhausted the number of viable possibilities. They've already had to deal with this, it is what caused the need for equipment and planeswalkers, and they've already had to treat the player himself as a game target even after the introduction of those things. Heck, they've also already had to go to flip cards as well. They're running out of design space.

No, they're not. The number of variables may be technically finite, but practically it's unlimited. Chess has nowhere near as many variables as Magic does, and we aren't running out of chess games. The design team is always experimenting with new mechanics, because sometimes they hit on an idea that really improves the game, but the vast bulk of the cards printed in Magic are using the same design space* they've had from the start: Instants, sorceries, creatures, enchantments, artifacts, and lands. I came back to the game after a 10-year hiatus and had no trouble with the new cards.

Coming back to the topic at hand, though... I think there is potential for awesome movies to be made out of D&D properties, as long as they focus on the specific property instead of trying to make it "generic D&D." Epic fantasy demands a fleshed-out world. With a hugely popular novel series, a well-defined world-spanning conflict, and some really vivid characters, Dragonlance is the obvious choice. (Yes, they already made some animated films which were by all accounts awful, but that wasn't the fault of the source material. The animated "Lord of the Rings" was atrocious; didn't stop Peter Jackson from turning it into a blockbuster live-action hit.)

[SIZE=-2]*In fact, the original design space had a number of elements that have since been removed. It used to be that artifacts came in "poly," "mono," and "continuous" varieties. That's not a thing any more. There used to be a seventh card type called "interrupt," and at one point they added an eighth for "mana source." Both of those were later folded into instants. Ante was removed from the rules once they realized nobody wanted to play for ante, which meant they could no longer print cards that messed with the ante. Et cetera, et cetera.[/SIZE]

 

[Halivar]

Coming back to the topic at hand, though... I think there is potential for awesome movies to be made out of D&D properties, as long as they focus on the specific property instead of trying to make it "generic D&D." Epic fantasy demands a fleshed-out world. With a hugely popular novel series, a well-defined world-spanning conflict, and some really vivid characters, Dragonlance is the obvious choice.

I hate to say it, but there is only one property that fulfills the parameters listed above that will have broad cross-media appeal. We're sick of him, but outsiders to the fantasy gaming/literature genre will probably find a certain dark elf ranger (who shall not be named!) more appealing than other possibilities.

 

[Derren]

This I don't get. 4e is the least video game friendly rule set.

As [MENTION=1604]mhensley[/MENTION] pointed out, the 4E rules are extremely turn based friendly. Real time? Not so much, but no PnP game has rules which are really real time friendly anyway.

 

[Halivar]

As @mhensley pointed out, the 4E rules are extremely turn based friendly. Real time? Not so much, but no PnP game has rules which are really real time friendly anyway.

I think games like KOTOR and Neverwinter Nights show that the 3.5 model is the one best suited to video games, because it follows the same "white attack" model with special abilities that is prevalent with MMO's. A 4E video game could never work because the expectations of modern fantasy combat games preclude turn-based combat with robust interrupt/reaction mechanisms.

EDIT: I consider this a flaw with 4E, BTW. The inability to make a robust video game from it limits its cross-media appeal.

 

[Dausuul]

I hate to say it, but there is only one property that fulfills the parameters listed above that will have broad cross-media appeal. We're sick of him, but outsiders to the fantasy gaming/literature genre will probably find a certain dark elf ranger (who shall not be named!) more appealing than other possibilities.

Drizzt would be another good choice. I'd give the edge to Dragonlance over Drizzt, simply because Dragonlance is epic fantasy and thus offers more scope for gigantic blockbuster media properties a la "Lord of the Rings" and "Game of Thrones." Drizzt's adventures are more in the sword and sorcery vein, and the stakes are "What's going to befall this handful of characters?" rather than "What's going to befall the entire world?"

Furthermore, Dragonlance has a larger stable of characters, which allows it to target more demographics. Pretty much every one of the Icewind Dale characters has a Dragonlance equivalent: Wulfgar/Caramon as the big buff warrior, Bruenor/Flint as the grouchy old veteran, Regis/Tasslehoff as the annoying light-fingered sidekick, Catti-Brie/Tika as the spunky redhead, and Drizzt/Raistlin as the brooding solitary angstmeister. But the reverse isn't true: Tanis, Sturm, Riverwind, Goldmoon, and Laurana don't have Icewind Dale equivalents.

But I could see either one being the basis for some really good movies.

 

[Mistwell]

Part of the reason 4E made such radical changes was that Hasbro was threatening to mothball the D&D brand.

I have never heard this claim, and I feel like I've been pretty on top of news like that. Can you back that claim up with anything?

 

[Mistwell]

I hate to say it, but there is only one property that fulfills the parameters listed above that will have broad cross-media appeal. We're sick of him, but outsiders to the fantasy gaming/literature genre will probably find a certain dark elf ranger (who shall not be named!) more appealing than other possibilities.

Dragonlance could do it. Planescape, Dark Sun, even Ebberon are all settings that can contain very compelling characters and stories.

I think character is important, but it's not the only thing that drives movies and television. Setting is capable of driving them too (particularly for television). Who wouldn't want to see a new movie or show based in the world of Harry Potter but which involved all new characters? Star Wars is likely not focusing on the old characters much (though they are tangentially involved). Nobody knows Dr. Strange or Guardians of the Galaxy or Antman in the wider movie-going population but I think people will flock to those movies because they are in the Marvel Universe setting. Agents of SHIELD and the new upcoming show Agent Carter will and have gotten viewers purely based on setting and not known characters.

Make an Ebberon television show, cast it well and get some good writers and directors, and I think it could do great. Same with any of those settings.