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D&D 5E D&D Next: Let's discuss it's mass multimedia goal.

I'm A Banana

Potassium-Rich
Mistwell said:
You make unforgettable characters. That's why I said it has to be well written - but the characters don't need to be what drives people to initially watch - setting can do that.

I think there's a tremendous amount of truth in this. Heck, it even works for superhero movies (it's not the specific character of Batman that gets people interested, it's the idea of a dude in a cape being all dark and gloomy and punchin' dudes -- could be anybody, that formula will work. That formula is pretty much the same formula as Drizzt).

Imagine a well-written detective/crime procedural series. Only there's airships and spying gnomes and elves that worship undead in a city of colossal towers. You've got CSI: Sharn. Or even The X-Files, but with Dragons. That's an elevator pitch I'd dare a studio head to just walk away from. ;)
 

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sunshadow21

Explorer
The problem with the D&D brand is lack of a central focus. Reviving Iron Man wasn't nearly as difficult because the focus was already there, it just needed the right combination of script, actor, and timing to catch the public eye. D&D has no such focus. Even in the individual product lines, there tends to be heavy splintering of focus between different worlds, characters, or preferred versions of lore, rule sets, etc. Making a smashing success of a Drizzt movie or a Dragonlance movie helps Drizzt or Dragonlance, but does little to help the core brand. In order for the multimedia aspect of WotC's goals to work out, Next has to successfully define D&D as a core brand that includes numerous other secondary brands that are already in existence and quite strong in their own right. If Next can do this, than getting people to want to license both the core brand and the secondary brands for games, movies, and whatever other products people can come up with will be much easier. Without that core identity, there's no real reason for anyone but WotC to care about the brand because there's no sellable core identity that everyone automatically thinks about when they hear the term D&D. You might get a few video games here and there, just like what 3.x and 4E got, but that's pretty much it. TV and movie producers will be just as likely to go with their own ideas because vague mentions here and there are not enough to constitute a bankable, reliable, ready made market.
 

pemerton

Legend
I think maybe two in ten people could name the whole JLA, tops.
That should probably read "two in ten ENworlders". If I turn my head I can look at a shelf with a super-hero comic collection numbering in the many 100s, and I don't think I could do this: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Aquaman, The Martian Manhunter, Red Tornado? Is Dr Fate in there somewhere? Who else?

And next Guardians of the Galaxy and Dr. Strange? Those last two are like 5th or 6th tier characters.
I just needed to point out that your outrageous slur against Dr Strange has been duly noted! (More seriously, I didn't know there's a Dr Strange movie on the way - hopefully it will be good.)

Thus the problem of "D&D: The Generic".

<snip>

Ask any player to describe a D&D game without using the rules. He'll talk of elves and dwarves, liches and dragons, wizards, rogues, fighters and clerics. He could just as well describe Dragon Age. Or Warcraft. Or Lodoss Wars. Or early Final Fantasy. What does D&D got locked in it's ip chest that can compete with those?

I think the only way it works is to create a world and characters that screams "D&D". That means consolidating the brand.
4e tried to create a more unified "story" for the D&D "world" - gods vs primordial, "points of light" etc. To mixed success, obviously.

Once upon a time I would have thought that a movie can't introduce that sort of backstory in a coherent fashion (eg the Dune movie). But then I saw the first of the LotR movies and saw how it can be done.
 

Movies based on comics usually come with characters with histories, stories, and complete universes. In most cases, they also come with a pre-existing fan base.

D&D doesn't come with any of that. It doesn't have much in the way of characters and stories (outside of individual campaigns run by customers), and there is no single set universe.

WotC is going to have a real struggle marketing D&D to the general public across a range of media if they don't have a recognizable universe with a set of strong characters. Movies are about characters and their stories within a particular setting. WotC is going to need to zoom in on some property within D&D - not D&D as a whole - to sell it. The fact that it comes from a concept within the D&D world should not be the major selling point.

They are also going to need to pick characters, stories, and a universe that is not obviously a blatant ripoff of Lord of the Rings, and that is recognizably different than any other generic high fantasy property.

I have no question that it can be done. In the right hands, it could be done really well. My real question is whether WotC and Hasbro can pull it off. That's a really big "if" right now.
 

4e tried to create a more unified "story" for the D&D "world" - gods vs primordial, "points of light" etc. To mixed success, obviously.

Once upon a time I would have thought that a movie can't introduce that sort of backstory in a coherent fashion (eg the Dune movie). But then I saw the first of the LotR movies and saw how it can be done.

You can't really compare it to LotR. Tolkien essentially invented the modern epic high fantasy genre, a long time ago. There were generations of people who grew up reading those books, and decades worth of poor imitations of them. You just can't compare the two.
 

The problem with the D&D brand is lack of a central focus. Reviving Iron Man wasn't nearly as difficult because the focus was already there, it just needed the right combination of script, actor, and timing to catch the public eye. D&D has no such focus...<snip>...In order for the multimedia aspect of WotC's goals to work out, Next has to successfully define D&D as a core brand that includes numerous other secondary brands that are already in existence and quite strong in their own right.

Yes, exactly. Well stated.
 

I think character is important, but it's not the only thing that drives movies and television. Setting is capable of driving them too (particularly for television).

That only works if the setting is tied to characters who are already popular, or is very compelling and unique in and of itself. Neither of those things are true for most existing D&D properties. They're too derivative and generic in general.
 

pemerton

Legend
Movies based on comics usually come with characters with histories, stories, and complete universes. In most cases, they also come with a pre-existing fan base.
You can't really compare it to LotR. Tolkien essentially invented the modern epic high fantasy genre, a long time ago. There were generations of people who grew up reading those books, and decades worth of poor imitations of them. You just can't compare the two.
In the case of the LotR movies, I don't think their uptake by audiences was driven by familiarity with the material. Perhaps I'm wrong, but my guess is that most people who saw those movies had no prior familiarity with the material, other than perhaps knowing/guessing it was fantasy related.

For stuff like Iron Man, Green Arrow, Avengers, SHIELD etc I'm going to assert that it's not just guesswork but strongly justified belief. When I saw the Avengers movie at a theatre in Melbourne, I wouldn't be surprised that of the dozens of people in the theatre I was one of the few who had actually read an Avengers comic.

A D&D movie isn't going to rely on existing fans as its audience. It's going to pitch itself as a fantasy-adventure movie that people who know nothing about D&D, except that it involves dungeons and dragons, are going to want to see.
 

sunshadow21

Explorer
A D&D movie isn't going to rely on existing fans as its audience. It's going to pitch itself as a fantasy-adventure movie that people who know nothing about D&D, except that it involves dungeons and dragons, are going to want to see.

In which case, the audience will fall in love with that particular dungeon/dragon/party/whatever and probably completely disregard the D&D logo that pops up from time to time. It will be exactly the same problem that the Drizzt novels have. People who read Drizzt novels don't read D&D novels, they read Drizzt because they like Drizzt. Most of them probably have no clue what the D&D logo slapped on the cover and the title page really means and are only slightly more aware of the Forgotten Realms logo. For the core D&D brand to be successful the way that people think it should be, WotC has to market Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance the same way Marvel markets Iron Man and Captain America, part of the same shared universe and lore. For that to work, both FR and Dragonlance have to be seen as strong brands in their own right, but not so far apart in implementation that it's hard for the casual observer to see the connection. That's a pretty tall order for any company, and an even taller one for like WotC that has no real experience in marketing on a truly serious level.
 

pemerton

Legend
In which case, the audience will fall in love with that particular dungeon/dragon/party/whatever and probably completely disregard the D&D logo that pops up from time to time.

<snip>

For the core D&D brand to be successful the way that people think it should be, WotC has to market Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance the same way Marvel markets Iron Man and Captain America, part of the same shared universe and lore. For that to work, both FR and Dragonlance have to be seen as strong brands in their own right, but not so far apart in implementation that it's hard for the casual observer to see the connection. That's a pretty tall order for any company
My guess is that that is a problem that WotC would like to have!

When Marvel first started with the X-Men movies, it wasn't the Marvel brand that was crucial. It was those characters and that universe (which to date hasn't been meaningfully integrated with the Spiderman or Avengers universe). I imagine there are plenty of movie-goers who have seen both X-Men and Avengers but haven't drawn the Marvel link, or noticed that (Green) Arrow has a different (DC) logo.
 

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