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D&D 5E Official D&D Basic Discussion Thread

FitzTheRuke

Legend
For the most part they've fixed all the stacking issues regarding tools & skills, but we're still left with a few points of illogic like "why is an herbalist kit at tool but a healer's kit is regular equipment?"

It's better, but it's inconsistent. There a few other oddities too like apparently you don't need to know how to use a healer's kit to be able to stabilize someone with it without a check.

I would have liked to have seen things like the crowbar and shovels be "labourer's tools".

Overall, I just think that if we're gonna go with tool proficiencies, we should go all out. Or the idea should be scrapped in favour of skills being the primary thing, and some tasks having disadvantage if you don't have the proper tools.
 

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sidonunspa

First Post
Regarding the bless spell, wouldn't it be "cleaner" to say it grants advantage to those affected? (I know the average/mean of advantage vs. adding 1d4 can be greater, but still.)

its to make it "stack" with flanking and attacking by surprise for example
 


WitchyD

Explorer
The way I've seen it play out at my table is one character acts out his, obnoxious, flaws. He gets inspiration for that, and then he hands the inspiration to the bard who is trying to persuade the, now offended, NPC. We justify it as a good cop-bad cop kind of exchange.

Thaumaturge.

Nice. I stand corrected then. It's great to see such teamwork happening.

Thaumaturge said:
Maybe I'm wrong about the typo you've found. But "cleave" can mean "to hold onto strongly" in addition to "split in half". Such things are part of the joy of language.

Oh. Joy. You're right. Editing that post.
 
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Agamon

Adventurer
Good to see that they left the Short Rest wording the same. The "at least one hour" means one hour or more. So while a group could do it after every encounter, by the RAW, players can't just string them together (unless, as a DM, you don't mind them being able to do that).

Not that I was worried about it, but I know some were. :)
 

I went in looking for four things beforehand to get my initial impression of the game and clarity and whether I'd want to run it. (I posted this as a thread on RPG.net).

  1. Are low level rogues deadweight (D&D has a historical problem with this)
  2. Are high level martial characters deadweight?
  3. How much faffing do I have to do?
  4. How much guidance on expected DCs is there?



On the first point I was impressed. I like the D&D Next thief at low levels. It's a good class. It's capable of the brush pass - something previously only 4E rogues had been able to do in practice. They seem pretty competent at thievery at low levels, and able to swashbuckle a bit. There's also a weird synergy going on that makes them very tough unless outnumbered once they get Uncanny Dodge, and rogues in Studded Leather have a decent AC, decent hit points, and can force Disadvantage. They also get to make use of the combat god-stat, Dex. (Rogue Two-weapon fighting is going to be a thing even if it gets in the way of their free Dash, Disengage, or Hide; they can't use shields and it gives them an extra chance to Sneak Attack, making it far more useful than to most people. If the left don't get you, the right one will - while even adding stat modifier to damage won't help the fighter because TWF doesn't get multiple attacks). At low levels this is the second best version of the rogue there's ever been IMO - behind the 4E Thief, but ahead of the 4E PHB Rogue.


On a tangent AC in 5E is weird. It's not 4E's "Heavy armour gives you a little extra protection, but what matters is who you are". And it's not AD&D's "Heavy armour was historically awesome". Non-magic PCs start with around +5 to hit at first level. Which means they need 5 to hit a naked average joe, and 15 to hit someone wearing full plate with a large shield. It's a meaningful difference, but not a big enough one to represent how effective armour really was. And most PCs other than wizards are going to be somewhere round AC 15 when starting out.


High level martial characters? A level 1 fighter is very good with a sword, and has a few skills. A level 20 fighter ... is very good with a sword and has a few skills and numbers that are slightly higher. Not even a whole lot higher - they get 4 attacks to the 11th level fighter's 3. They get +2 Proficiency, an extra use of Action Surge, and a couple of extra uses of Indomitable. And the archetype features aren't that great. There's almost nothing that a 20th level fighter can do that two 11th level fighters won't do better. And it's hard to see what an 11th level fighter can do that two 5th level fighters can't. Especially when in both cases the multiple fighters can use shields to guard each others' sides. The rogue doesn't quite have the same problem (the ability to not roll below a 10 is huge and comes at level 11 and User Magic Device, and Thief's Reflexes are both pretty huge). But if you zoom out even slightly the fighter is simply better at doing exactly what they were doing at level 1. The rogue is, granted, a lot better (Expertise and Reliable combine for a minimum roll of about 25 at really high levels; +6*2 +Dex + Roll of 10).


How much faffing is something I can't answer without monsters. But from the spell blocks it is ... not good. I need to look deep inside them to find the saving throw. Never mind the damage.


When working out DCs, you need to avoid both the Scylla of no guidelines and the Chyribdis of too much detail grinding the thing to a halt. And here Next appears to not just be steering towards Scylla, but to have marinaded half the crew and have someone on the deck jumping up and down shouting "Scylla, here we are! Come and eat us!" - and not because there's a trap. DCs range from "Very easy" (DC 5) to "Nearly Impossible" (DC 30) with no discussion about what this means for any skill. How easy is walking a tightrope? I'd fail. Circus performers do it every day. The swing on the skill check is just too big. And the entire lack of difficulties when dealing with something like a fantasy setting is just half-assed. Bring back NWPs - even they were an improvement on this because they meant that at the very least PCs would have a good idea of their chance of success.


So my overall thoughts? D&D Next played as E6 with an experienced DM that's been DMing with the same group for years looks like a perfectly acceptable game. I was hoping for something a little bit better than that.
 

I've barely read any of this thread, so someone else may have already commented on these, but two things really stick out as being very different from 3e and later:

  1. There is a training requirement of 250 days of downtime needed for learning a new language or toolset proficiency;
  2. You don't automatically know if someone cast a spell on you anymore!

I wholeheartedly approve of both.

250 days seems pretty long for a language/tool proficiency in a fantasy setting, but I guess it must be complete 100% fluency/really solid mastery or something. Also I guess it costs nothing but the time (and living costs, tutor costs, etc. if any), rather than skill points or Feats or whatever, so it's sort of free which is cool. Certainly would have let PCs pick up a bit of stuff in some of the downtimes I've had in campaigns before. Good stuff.

Inspiration - I don't like that you can't bank this at all, because it seems like that sort of discourages trying, RP-wise. I mean, sure, don't go overboard, but I may well house-rule that to bank up to 3 or something. Otherwise I can see players holding back a clever bit of RP because they can't get a biscuit now, but could if they waited until they'd used their Inspiration. (God I keep nearly typing Thinspiration thanks to certain recent news stories).

On the money chapter - It's very very very hard to believe laborers in a medieval points-of-light society (which the FR and most mentioned settings are) are paid copper pieces per day, if a night's rest in an inn costs 1sp. Whoever wrote this was apparently unaware that laborers were not actually the lowest-earning members of medieval society, and had to eat pretty heartily to do their jobs.

OMG TRADE GOODS ARE BACK YAY!

Hells yeah these armour types. Woo Half Plate and Breastplate.

Alchemist's Fire kind of blows hard. You have to waste your action to make a non-proficient attack, and you do 0 damage on hit (with napalm... wat?), and it only does 1d4 at the start of their turn, and is extinguished with a single action and a DC10 check. It appears to have no AoE. Creature suffers no penalties despite being ON FIRE WITH NAPALM. Terrible. This is below what even an improv molotov should do (and could lead to hilarity as people just ignore being on fire because really, beyond about level/HD4 or 5, you're better off not wasting an action on that until the fight is over.

EDIT - This is particularly bizarre because the Ball Bearing and Caltrop rules are more powerful than most editions. Holy Water has no burst either :( Oooh a mantrap, that's cool. So if you want to totally screw someone, they have tools - if you want to hurt them, not so much. House rules ahoy!

EDIT EDIT - What you really need is a sort of double-bottle thing with oil AND greek fire, because that'd actually be dangerous enough to waste an action on beyond L1-4, doing 1d4+5 damage/round (still no upfront bah).
 
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Dausuul

Legend
Good to see that they left the Short Rest wording the same. The "at least one hour" means one hour or more. So while a group could do it after every encounter, by the RAW, players can't just string them together (unless, as a DM, you don't mind them being able to do that).

Not that I was worried about it, but I know some were. :)
I had the opposite reaction. This wording leaves room for a lot of arguments over what is required to "reset" your rest clock. I'd rather they just said one hour, and if you want to take two in a row, go right ahead.
 

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