D&D 5E Can my table focus on making things fun instead of optimizing?

[prosfilaes]

Is your story more than "I was as mechanically optimized as possible", and again, how would your character even KNOW he had made the best choices possible without knowing he was a character in a game?

My Pathfinder character did not choose to be a kitsune or to be fey-blooded, or probably to some extent a sorcerer at all. But once he discovered that he had the power to bend people's minds to his will, why would he take any other route then doing those things that would maximize that power? If you're going into combat situations, are you not going to choose the best feats to study to make sure you get out alive?

If you saw the character sheet for Simo Häyhä, you'd probably say that he's horribly mechanically optimized. But it turns out that people who become the world's greatest sniper tend to have an obsession with guns, they have the stats needed to become the world's greatest sniper, they tend to be mechanically optimized. The best in the world don't tend to get there by being dilettantes or being natively unsuited for the task.

And lastly, if the DM and the system wants me to be not mechanically optimized, it needs to reward me for that. Yay, you put points into Profession: Midwife! That might actually matter in the game! Not just make me feel like I choose poorly when bad things happen in the game because my character is not optimized enough and enemies get past him to the wizard or he can't deal enough damage to the BBEG.

 

[mcbobbo]

My character doesn't need to know, that is my point.

Seems like someone who didn't know there was a character optimization metagame going on might not always make the optimal choice.

Or perhaps you are saying your character's development is not guided by choices your character would actually make?

What are you saying, exactly?

 

[mcbobbo]

But it turns out that people who become the world's greatest sniper tend to have an obsession with guns, they have the stats needed to become the world's greatest sniper, they tend to be mechanically optimized. The best in the world don't tend to get there by being dilettantes or being natively unsuited for the task.

That's actually not true, particularly of real world snipers. Some were avid hunters and the like, but many didn't discover they were talented in this way until after joining the military. People aren't born knowing their talents, and many go their whole lives without really feeling awesome at anything.

Not just make me feel like I choose poorly when bad things happen in the game because my character is not optimized enough and enemies get past him to the wizard or he can't deal enough damage to the BBEG.

The cliche response here is 'show me on the doll where the bad DM touched you', but with sincerity, you can't bend an entire game away from its roleplaying core just because you don't feel like you do enough damage. For starters it is incredibly selfish, but ultimately, too much metagame is always bad. Always. A little is fine, and to be expected. But when metagame becomes more important than the actual game, you're out of balance.

 

[Paraxis]

Seems like someone who didn't know there was a character optimization metagame going on might not always make the optimal choice.

Or perhaps you are saying your character's development is not guided by choices your character would actually make?

What are you saying, exactly?

Step one, optimize the starting character. Build it to be the best at whatever role you fill. The fluff comes well after the mechanics, and whatever choices you made here can be justified by whatever fluff you throw on top of your character.

Step two, optimize during character advancement. My characters are heroes who along with fellow heroes seem to end up in dangerous situations where innocent lives and the lives of his teammates are at stake, it is foolish to think they would not continue to make the best choices to keep living and grow in power to save others. So whatever role playing you need to interject to justify picking up the optimal feat, or optimal multiclass choice, or optimal whatever go ahead and do it.

Step three, have fun. With your fully optimized for whatever you wanted to do, but still get to role play with character.

It is simple.

 

[mcbobbo]

It is simple.

Steps one and two are infested with metagame. And you didn't even come up with a whole paragraph for step three. So you're right, it IS simple. And that's the problem.

But whatever floats your boat, dude. I do understand how a DM might get sick of it, though. Too bad you can't. It might make your game more enjoyable.

 

[Paraxis]

Steps one and two are infested with metagame. And you didn't even come up with a whole paragraph for step three. So you're right, it IS simple. And that's the problem.

But whatever floats your boat, dude. I do understand how a DM might get sick of it, though. Too bad you can't. It might make your game more enjoyable.

We can agree to disagree.
But I have no issues with metagame, especially when it is away from the table.
As far as making my game more enjoyable, I say the same to people who don't optimize. Optimizing is me having fun away from the table, and it doesn't hinder me at all from role playing and having fun at the table, so as far as I am concerned my way is twice the fun, at least for me it is.

 

[mcbobbo]

My Pathfinder character did not choose to be a kitsune or to be fey-blooded, or probably to some extent a sorcerer at all.

Just occurred to me, but how is your character both Japanese and European? Or in your world are Inari and fey the same thing? If not it's a bit like being a minotaur/dragon, isn't it?

 

[mcbobbo]

So I said...

I do understand how a DM might get sick of it, though. Too bad you can't. It might make your game more enjoyable.

...and your reply was...

But I have no issues with metagame, especially when it is away from the table.
As far as making my game more enjoyable, I say the same to people who don't optimize. Optimizing is me having fun away from the table, and it doesn't hinder me at all from role playing and having fun at the table, so as far as I am concerned my way is twice the fun, at least for me it is.

My appeal was towards empathy, and you went all self-centered instead. That says something, too, don't you agree?

 

[jrowland]

And as I get older, it's even hard to remember an NPC's name 10 minutes after it is stated. And of course, no self respecting DM would name his important NPCs Bob, or Frank, or Tom, he has to name them fricking Alizar or even Ouzdavu (wth???).

I must not be a self-respecting DM, lol!

I purposely name important NPCs with less-than-fantastic names. For example, my last (playtest) campaign was against a coven of Hags named: Miley, Cyrus, and Hannah. Because they were sisters and looked alike, it fit, it generated real loathing on the players part which they channeled into their characters.

In addition, I do things like name towns next to a river "Riverton", and cities in the forest "Arbor City", and the swamp infested with Giant Mosquitos (stirges) "Mosquito Swamp"...players appreciate it. I guess I gave up, got old, or realized I couldn't remember the fanciful names myself...take your pic.

 

[Paraxis]

My appeal was towards empathy, and you went all self-centered instead. That says something, too, don't you agree?

Sure it does, I worry about my enjoyment of me having fun with the time I invest in my hobby, don't care about the rest of the fools let them eat cake.