D&D 5E The Case for a Magic Item Shop?

[KarinsDad]

2 - now this is where things get (for me) really cool (and stupid).
Engineering applications of a flexible, sharp and unbreakable material that can withstand heat, acid, etc, etc.

• IRL - millions of dollars (or more) per blade.
• In D&D - however much your engineers can afford - which would probably amount to less than the price the martial aspect would set : in either case, it's the nobles doing the actual spending. Nobles tend to prefer to have the martials on their side over the engineers. A case could be made for a ruler interested in engineering. Then the price would be sky-high.

In the real world 2014, this might be millions of dollars per blade.

In the real world 3014 when indestructible materials are very common, this might be the equivalent of 20 2014 dollars per blade.

In the fantasy world of D&D, indestructible weapons (presumably) exist. If there are a few, then they are worth a lot each. If there are many, then they are worth a lot less each.

In other words, one cannot use the indestructible materials argument in either direction. It's all relative to how common said items are.

 

[Jester David]

To that I say it depends on the type of campaign you are running. ...
For the type of world presented in most D&D adventures, fiction and video games, I think that's a bit unrealistic. When many popular characters in official D&D novels are running around with a dozen magic items or more, I can see why players (and DMs) might have similar expectations for their own game.

Overlooking the fact readers of official novels are only a part of the audience this doesn't ring true.
First, this *might* depend on the edition. Recent books are likely emulating 3e/4e with assumed magic items, but earlier novels would not have been. But I doubt that.

My main experience with D&D fiction is the Dragonlance books. There were a couple magic swords in that, a knife, and a staff. (Plus artifacts). But not a whole lot and they're seldom called out as magic, just old swords.
Drizzt had three magic items of note in his early books, Wulfgar only had a hammer, and Regis had a shiny rock. Even in the later books Drizzt only really used a small hanfull of magic items and most he'd had for years. A far cry from the endless treadmill of magic items of 3-4e.
And for a D&D book club I just read a FR where there was maybe one magic weapon used by the main characters (aside from wands).

In a 4e game (by the rules), a party of 5 receives 4 magic items each level for a total of 24 items each, almost one per level. Ignoring the 18 weapon/neck/armour items of increasing pluses this includes six additional items. At any time a character should have 9 magic items on their possession. And if they sell old magic and spend gold on magic then they might have far, far more.
And in a Pathfinder campaign I just finished (ended at level 17) my wife's rogue fourteen permanent magic items, possibly the fewest in the party.

The thing is, in novels, characters never have the magic items the last few editions expect of characters because communicating that number of items to the reader (and expecting them to remember) is awkward. And just producing a magic item can be deus ex machina.


Now, video games are a different story. That gets tricky as video games are so inundated with loot. For the most part. It's almost expected that you will see lots and lots of treassure.

However, as the associated blog with that image says, the games are "repetitive, grindy, and a little mindess." Because the "loot keeps you coming back long after the gamplay mechanics have grown stale."
D&D is the opposite of that. Should be the opposite. Once D&D requires constant rewards and wish fulfilment to provide enjoyment the campaign has problems.

 

[Hussar]

Just a nitpick.

In Dragonlance, the characters were absolutely DRIPPING with magic items. Every character had magic weapons, typically about +3 by 5th level, magic armor, Tasselhoff had magic glasses that let him read languages. Multiple artifact level magic items and dragon lances that dealt the dragon+the rider's HP in damage to any dragon hit. I wouldn't point to DL for a low magic setting. That's a pretty wahoo setting right there. I mean, the companions were adventuring with a GOD for much of the time. That's fairly wahoo right there.

 

[Random Bystander]

Just a nitpick.

In Dragonlance, the characters were absolutely DRIPPING with magic items. Every character had magic weapons, typically about +3 by 5th level, magic armor, Tasselhoff had magic glasses that let him read languages. Multiple artifact level magic items and dragon lances that dealt the dragon+the rider's HP in damage to any dragon hit. I wouldn't point to DL for a low magic setting. That's a pretty wahoo setting right there. I mean, the companions were adventuring with a GOD for much of the time. That's fairly wahoo right there.

Adventuring with a god? Clearly you don't mean Zifnab. He is surely nothing more than a Sartan.

 

[Paraxis]

Pretty much every D&D world besides Dark Sun is gonzo with the magic items. Drizzt has over a dozen magic toys for instance, in Eberron there is everyday magic tools and even magically engineered animals, I don't understand how/why people want to expect low magic from a game where every single class gets spell access.

 

[Jester David]

Just a nitpick.

In Dragonlance, the characters were absolutely DRIPPING with magic items. Every character had magic weapons, typically about +3 by 5th level, magic armor, Tasselhoff had magic glasses that let him read languages. Multiple artifact level magic items and dragon lances that dealt the dragon+the rider's HP in damage to any dragon hit. I wouldn't point to DL for a low magic setting. That's a pretty wahoo setting right there. I mean, the companions were adventuring with a GOD for much of the time. That's fairly wahoo right there.

Most of that is only apparent in the gaming books.
In the novels attention is paid to Tanis' sword, sturm's sword and armour (which are not described as magic), the staff of magius, rabbitslayer (not described as magic), the dragon orb, the dragonlances, and Tas' glasses (okay, which I forgot about earlier).
So, really, you had one magic sword (that was lost early in the second book), a staff that could cast light, glasses that let you read, and a couple MacGuffin artifacts.

The setting is not so much low magic as magic items all have a history. (Or is supposed to have a history.) Magic is not everywhere, the adventurers are just exceptions to the rule who stumble over the limited magic items.
Now, in game stats, suddenly everyone has crazy magic weapons and gear. Which was actually disconcerting when I read the mechanics. I remember my WFT? reaction when I found out rabbitslayer was a freakin' +3 weapon. Even Caramon, who never seems to use the same sword for more than 30 seconds before having to replace it with one stolen from a draconian, is given multiple magic items.

 

[MoutonRustique]

... I remember my WFT? reaction when I found out rabbitslayer was a freakin' +3 weapon. Even Caramon, who never seems to use the same sword for more than 30 seconds before having to replace it with one stolen from a draconian, is given multiple magic items.

If we're going to nitpick - this is one MAJOR (in the sense that it is about something very minor) nitpick : it was a +4 weapon...

In some ways, it was the strongest weapon the companions had...

(hehehe - I'm feeling so proud of myself right now)

 

[Jester David]

Pretty much every D&D world besides Dark Sun is gonzo with the magic items. Drizzt has over a dozen magic toys for instance, in Eberron there is everyday magic tools and even magically engineered animals, I don't understand how/why people want to expect low magic from a game where every single class gets spell access.

My copy of the 3.0 Forgotten Realms campaign settling lists Drizzt's magic items as +4 mithril chainmail, Icingdeath, Twinkle, and a figurine of wonderous power (that is really an animal companion). Three-and-a-half.
I believe he also has some bracers worn on his legs that didn't make the cut.

The FR wiki also gives him a magic bow/quiver, a cloak, a whistle, and a ring. So at most (and counting the bow and quiver separate) that's 10 items, but really closer to eight as one basically lets him summon a class feature.


D&D has a lot of classes that use spells, but there's a big difference between what adventurers have access to and what common people have access to. And what is readily available.
Eberron and it's idea of commonplace magic is cool, but that's nice as an exception. I don't think that needs to be the baseline.

Personally, I like the idea of magic item shops. But I prefer the idea of them being wonderous places of oddities and the bizarre. Like a crazy pawn shop where you never know what you will find and there's always something new. Or a fantastic goblin bazaar that sets up shop once every year at a fey crossing. Or a magical extraplanar store that just appears where there was no store before, that doesn't trade in gold but in your dreams or memories or even soul.
The idea that you can just go in, grab a +1 dagger, upgrade your armour to +3, throw a fire enchantment on your bow, and special order a wand with 10 charges of greater invisibility rubs me the wrong way. The idea that the party wizard can just sit around for a week and custom craft items to order is not what I want in my game.

 

[Random Bystander]

The idea that the party wizard can just sit around for a week and custom craft items to order is not what I want in my game.

However, that kind of feel is exactly what I want in my games. By level 5, you are the weird.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Jester David]

However, that kind of feel is exactly what I want in my games. By level 5, you are the weird.

Edited for clarity.

And that's easy to do. It shouldn't be hard to add as an option. But it makes for a weird baseline.

I'm currently trying to remove all the stat boosting magic items from Pathfinder expected by the wealth-by-level and it is a LOT of work and super awkward. After playing a 1-17 PF campaign having thetable spend thirty minutes every few sessions working out the distribution of treasure and how much time it would take to craft the items from everyone's wishlists. Two-thirds of the time the campaign took in the world was spent crafting magical gear. The game even added the downtime system in Ultimate Campaign which amounts to "here's things the fighter and rogue can do while the wizard is spending six weeks making everyone new cloaks of resistance". Because, of course, everyone in the world uses the same cloak, because any other cloak is inoptimal.