D&D 5E Spell Point Variant in Play

[Thyrwyn]

I have tried spell point systems in AD&D, 2e, and others. As other posters have mentioned, they become problematic at some point, when the number of top tier spells you can cast starts to really unbalance things.

The problem with spell point systems is that they still use the same recharge rate as spell slot systems - when you finish a long rest. this leads to short work days or novas, etc...

But here is a thought - not very well fleshed out, mind you - this is entirely off the cuff: what if you drastically reduced the total in the pool, but increased the recharge rate. A lot.
1) Set the spell pool at roughly 2 or 3 times the cost of their highest level spell;
2) Allow them recover a certain number of points per round (make the rate level dependent - a die roll, proficiency bonus, whatever), probably around 1/3 or 1/2 the cost of their highest level spell
3) Spell point costs would have to be adjusted.

The idea is to make sure there is a cost each and every encounter to going nova - if you nova early, you will be gassed in the later rounds until your pool recharges. Draining your pool as it recovers will mean you will never get back to your higher level spells that fight.

4) Your Point pool fully recovers at the end of each encounter, except:
5) Casting your higher tier spells (maybe top two? top 1/2) reduces the cap on your pool by a certain amount (maybe 1/2 or 1/3 the cost of the spell?), until you finish a long rest.

The idea here is that you have juice for every encounter, but their is still a work-day cost for using your most powerful spells early in the day.

Like I said - off the cuff - but it's an idea....

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

The idea here is that you have juice for every encounter, but their is still a work-day cost for using your most powerful spells early in the day.

It sounds pretty complicated, and nearly a revamp of the whole system. Also, I think a lot of 5E combats can be over in as little as 2-3 rounds, so a system that tweaks a class based on the amount of rounds in a combat seems very difficult to balance properly.

I feel this is the main issue with suggestions to change spell points into a more "recharge a small amount throughout the day" style. If you look at the Warlock, they had to seriously curtail the amount of spells a Warlock could cast at any one time in order to balance it with the fact that Warlocks can potentially recharge those slots multiple times a day.

 

[Ricochet]

If casting 4th and 5th level spells nonstop were an issue, ParagonOfVirtue would have seen problems starting at mid-levels around 7, not just at level 17.

I did, actually, but it wasn't a troubling issue for the other classes at that point, only for me adjusting foes and encounters slightly to compensate. But it's the points pool growing a lot in those mid-levels that really starts the overpowered nature of it - especially if you don't necessarily use more than a few encounters in a "game day".

We only waited until 17th level because I was stubborn to see it through. By then I was not playing by the rules at all with monsters and NPC's, often quadrupling hit points and having to put in a bunch of extra layers of padding to compensate for saving throws and more.

But again, 5e should be better. You will still be seeing a large boost for casters when using this system though. Looking forward to hearing about it in play.

 

[Pvt. Winslow]

I'll make sure to come back and report on my findings. I'm going to be putting them up against a lot of fairly "save the world" stuff, so they might appreciate the extra power. Time will tell.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Reading this thread makes me want to play a spell point wizard now!

Yeehaw!

 

[Saeviomagy]

Is it me, or diviners come out way ahead with spell points? High level divinations cost them 1-2 spell points to cast!

 

[keterys]

Is that really any different from how it already works?

 

[Saeviomagy]

Is that really any different from how it already works?

It feels like "you may cast an divination of any level with a 1st/2nd level slot" is better than the normal slot degradation.

 

[keterys]

Except that's much stronger, since you have highly limited very high level spell slots, so the limitation is that you are actually downgrading slots with the current setup.

To be honest, the other limitation is that there's only so much cause to cast higher level divinations. You've got your Foresight, then True Seeing as needed, and then you mostly have lower level spells you'll do for convenience.

 

[MoutonRustique]

Good points. Maybe that's traditionally what's wrong with spell point systems. The amount of points given should plateau and then increase very little. So you trade out the amount of spells that a spell slot system gives in exchange for greater flexibility in what spells you actually cast. No idea how one would go about making that change. It would probably require a rework from the ground up.

In a sense, this already exists : it's the warlock casting mechanic.