Yes, but if you need a 15 on the roll instead of 16, you're better off with advantage (+4.2).
Which is meaningless, since making the comparison after the first die is cast is nonsensical....
Yes, but if you need a 15 on the roll instead of 16, you're better off with advantage (+4.2).
The issue is how 'valuable' is getting advantage. So if you needed a 16 to hit, would you rather have advantage on the roll, or a +4 on the roll?
As it turns out, you are better off with the +4. (Advantage would be the equivalent of a +3.75 on the roll) The benefit from advantage is never better than a +5 on the roll, and can be worse than a +1.
The numbers below are accurate.
An AD&D character could get a +14 or 15 to hit. A 10th level fighter's THACO was effectively a +9 and add in magic weapons, and strength and specialization bonuses would get you into that range.
It's kind of funny thinking about using XP to level now -- I probably havent done that in 7 or 8 years, now.
The issue is how 'valuable' is getting advantage. So if you needed a 16 to hit, would you rather have advantage on the roll, or a +4 on the roll?
As it turns out, you are better off with the +4. (Advantage would be the equivalent of a +3.75 on the roll) The benefit from advantage is never better than a +5 on the roll, and can be worse than a +1.
Mark CMG good quote.
The online basic rules don't go into that depth, so I'm glad you found a better source for me.
Which is meaningless, since making the comparison after the first die is cast is nonsensical....
So if you needed a 16 to hit, would you rather have advantage on the roll, or a +4 on the roll?
As it turns out, you are better off with the +4
Yes, but if you need a 15 on the roll instead of a 16, you're better off with advantage (+4.2)
Sorry, but your math/assumptions are incorrect. There is never a "+19" benefit for advantage. Advantage is *always* the probability of hitting a specific target or higher when rolling two dice. I've already posted those probabilities. The probability is a percentage, but we can give it as an *equivalent* bonus as if we had just rolled one die because we know the odds for rolling any single number on a d20 is 5%. So, there's never more than a 25% better chance (or, the equivalent of +5) when using advantage.if I roll a 1 and a 20, my advantage benefit is +19 or +0, an average of +9.5, which is better than +5. Did you mean the average benefit is never greater than +5?
fjw70 made me ask myself: does advantage's advantage depend on sequence of rolls? Can advantage be said to grant a benefit if both rolls are made at the same time? My method assumed that the rolls did not depend on order, and that advantage was always increasing the result of the lower roll to the higher roll. Question 1: why is this incorrect?
Now if I say order is important, that advantage always follows a normal roll, this means that the second roll is worthless if it is equal to or lower than the first. In this case, advantage has granted no advantage at all. This will significantly lower the average bonus, but it also seems to state that almost half of the time (get this): advantage negates itself. Actually, over half the time, since equal results on the dice are effectively no advantage, too.
It's not a matter of me being right. The math is the math. Probability is probability. It's calculable. The average equivalent benefit of advantage is +3.325 (or, about 16%). The actual benefit, though, changes depending on what your target number is. And, I'd say it's very advantageous. It's as high as 25% (for a target of 11). So, if you need to roll an 11 or higher, you have the equivalent of +5 on your roll. That's huge. Even the lowest percentage advantage (for rolling a natural 20) is double with advantage than without, even if it's still relatively small. So, again, the average equivalent advantage is +3.325, which is very advantageous. It's never 6.65, because that's not how probability works.Question(s) 2:
So is @Gecko85 right (3.325), and advantage usually isn't advantage at all?
Or am I right (6.65), and advantage is always advantageous?
What's another possibility?