What to do when one PC is *far* weaker than rest of party

[Ancalagon]

Hello

(I'll post the specific example further down, but I'll start with the generalities).

So, obviously in any party some PCs are going to be stronger combatant than others. Some may be specialized in only one type of combat only, they may have rolled poorly on their abilities, sub-optimal design or they just be more social-oriented characters. And that's fine. I don't think perfect balance in combat is achievable or even desirable.

However, in some cases the level of difference in combat survivablility is ridiculous. A modest fight for the other characters is a major threat, and a hard fight is one the weak one is unlikely to survive.

So, as a GM, how does one deal with such a situation?

I've also seen other instances where one PC is so much tougher than the rest of the party that any challenge likely to endanger them will kill everyone else, but this scenario feels less disruptive.

 

[Ancalagon]

What happened: This was about 3 years ago in a hybrid 3.5/pathfinder game, but honestly I think this scenario could occur in any edition of D&D.

I made my PC a bit after some of the others have started building theirs. I knew we didn't have a typical "tank" - we had a monk, a dwarven barbarian and a swashbuckling finess-type fighter, as well as a spellcasting-focused cleric. We didn't have arcane magic, but I knew I also needed to be resilient. So I made a dwarven alchemist - very tough, some arcane blasting via bombs, a touch of healing and utility, can drink the mutagen to become decent in a fight etc etc, and more importantly fun to play. I also took a feat to use shield - not optimal but fit into my "want to survive" ethos.

Then the last player decided to make a bard. I thought "well this will be a neat party". Obviously the spellcasting cleric and the bard were going to have to be shielded by the rest of the party, but that's fine, not unusual at all. The bard was quite useful in social situations and well role-played too. However, we also had big battles and...

The bard definitely helped with a +2 "bardic song", which made the warriors of the party rather dangerous (esp the monk), so it wasn't useless in combat. However, said bard was *incredibly* vulnerable. *No* con bonus. Decent but not great dex. Very light armor. NO DEFENSIVE SPELLS. At one point my character had triple her HP and my baseline AC was 22 vs her 16, which she couldn't increase while I could buff myself to the low 30s. Her offensive capacity (besides bardic song) was also trivial. D6+1 shortbow at mid levels, woo-ho...

Obviously this is an exceptional case! But it does happen...

 

[Celebrim]

Well, to begin with... try not to let that happen.

It's a particularly bad problem in 3.5 when you get a system optimizer in a group with a bunch of casual players (or vica versa) because the balance is all over the place. The only system worse is probably Rifts.

1) Generously ban material. Keep your problems to a minimum. Things still won't be balanced without much work, but at least you'll have fewer things to juggle. I for example ban all PrCs.
2) Patch classes as needed.
3) Firmly insist on point buy for just a lot of reasons, this being just one of them.
4) Coach players if they are building toward something much weaker than the rest of the group - non-optimized monks, rangers, or bards for example. Non-optimized fighters if you are playing above 9th level or so. Generally speaking, your DM should have caught a non-optimized bard back before the character was approved and made some suggestions. No CON bonus is a huge red flag on almost any character. I try not to put a firm hand on the player's builds, but if you see someone that has a build that just won't cut it in the long term, you need to gently ask that player if they are going to be happy with the player not getting much combat spot light, often being a weak link in the party, and being often a little pathetic. Also, you need to tell them that the party can't hide behind a pile of dead bards as a tactic.
5) Stay in the sweet spot. If you are past 13th level, you've missed it.
6) If you see the problem developing, figure out how the character is going to die and try to patch the character with gear. Gear is a huge part of a character's effectiveness, and while I'd never overgear a character deliberately just to keep them alive I would adjust the gear to be perfectly suited to their current needs if that kept the character in the spotlight more and the table more contented. So, short bows with an energy descriptor of some sort to buff their damage, very good light armor with some small bonuses to Bard-y stuff to make sure she got claim of it, gear that let you cast defensive magic, and probably a belt of health would turn up just in that character's exact size.
7) Don't just throw monsters of a given CR or EL at the party just because the system says so. Use some discretion based on party capabilities. Somethings will be easier for a particular party composition and some harder. Figure out how to let everyone shine without getting people straight up killed at a high probability.
8) Let the 'tankier' players draw agro. If the Bard isn't doing a lot of damage, it probably shouldn't be drawing much attention either. NPC's attack threats they can observe in a largely rational manner. Sure, that Brute might be able to smash the Bard down in a single attack, but why would it even try when more immediate threats are beating on it.

 

[Dandu]

Kill him

 

[Psikerlord#]

If the intraparty imbalance is not fixed, ime, the campaign will end one way or another. Easiest fix - DM gives the bard a very powerful magic item to boost him.

 

[MwaO]

I think the easiest thing is to have a conversation with the player of the Bard if you're the DM. If you're another player, let them get behind you.

But if the Bard is constantly doing the +2 Inspire Courage in that example, they're actually likely contributing a huge amount to combat. The big problem that 3.5 Bards usually have is that they figure out something other than Inspire Courage, Haste, and/or Inspire Greatness to do in combat. And then do it.

 

[Ancalagon]

Kill him

You do mean the PC right...

 

[Celebrim]

But if the Bard is constantly doing the +2 Inspire Courage in that example, they're actually likely contributing a huge amount to combat. The big problem that 3.5 Bards usually have is that they figure out something other than Inspire Courage, Haste, and/or Inspire Greatness to do in combat. And then do it.

The big problem with the Bard as a class is that it's only powerful if there are six or more players in the party. The Bard's buffs tend to effect all allies, so the more allies they have, the more potent their influence on combat. If they only have 3 allies, the boost they give to the party isn't necessarily worth the slot they are taking up, which might more usefully be filled with full spell-caster or a tank-y combatant.

Still, there are a lot of things that a good Bard can do that ought to be greatly influencing combat. They have sleep and grease as 1st level spells, and summon swarm, silence, and mirror image as 2nd level spells. For third level spells they pick up charm monster, haste, and slow. There is little reason why a mid-level Bard shouldn't always have a charmed body guard tanking for them, and be able to powerfully counter most threats as needed. Summon swarm is devastating against monsters with only physical attacks. Silence can be devastating to spellcasters. Slow is a great general purpose debuff that shuts down brutes like giants and elementals and lets you kite anything without a ranged attack.

As a GM if you see a player lagging behind the rest of the party, you need to take them aside and coach them on keeping up, not just for their sake but to avoid resentment that can build up from other party members if they feel one player isn't carrying their share of the load, or is forcing them to continually take risk and spend resources to keep them alive.

If they won't be coached on how to contribute more, you need to assess the group dynamics. Is the rest of the group OK with a party member in mostly a RP role and little tactical influence? Are the power gamers taking up the slack, and are they OK with it? Is the player with the weak character sensitive and highly attached to their character? In some cases, the proper approach is to simply let the PC die in the normal course of affairs. In some cases, it's OK to have the PC continue in a party sidekick, PC henchmen, sort of role and just avoid washing the party regularly in dragon breath weapons and the like.

 

[Ancalagon]

But if the Bard is constantly doing the +2 Inspire Courage in that example, they're actually likely contributing a huge amount to combat.

Oh the Bard's inspire courage was tremendously useful. It made my thrown bombs more accurate, and it's immensely useful for a monk. And when the cleric cast prayer (or some other spell that stacked with inspire courage) the party was a menace. It's not so much about the contribution, but rather the extreme vulnerability.

I spoke to the player about defensive spells, gave specific examples (mirror image would have been good) but she didn't use them because reasons.

 

[MwaO]

The big problem with the Bard as a class is that it's only powerful if there are six or more players in the party. The Bard's buffs tend to effect all allies, so the more allies they have, the more potent their influence on combat. If they only have 3 allies, the boost they give to the party isn't necessarily worth the slot they are taking up, which might more usefully be filled with full spell-caster or a tank-y combatant.

First off, the party listed is 6 players - 3 weapon-users, bomb thrower, cleric, and bard. The only real problem is the vulnerability of the Bard and I think that's more a problem with stat allocation. If it is point buy, she should have at least a 12 Con and say a 14 Dex. As DM, I'd just hand out some obviously bardy-magic item that happens to give a Bard some temp hp as a standard action at-will - so easy to use outside of combat, and if she doesn't have anything better to do and is getting pressed, she can 'regenerate' essentially. But instead of taking Mirror Image, she should just cast Glitterdust - blind targets are effectively not going to be hitting all that well.

But in any case, 3 allies is fine. People tend to completely underestimate the value of a +X to hit/damage because for the most part, the big problem is getting allies to remember to include the numbers always.

Without doing anything particularly unusual - Inspirational Boost+Inspire Courage+Haste when I was high enough level, I played a Bard in Living Greyhawk. I'd routinely get pushback at the start of random convention tables - rolled eyes, statements of 'oh no, not a bard...', etc...except I had table tents, I'd hold up fingers to remind people, and on top of it, I'd press people when they said they missed did they remember to include the +X to hit and I'd make sure they included the +X damage on their hits. I kid you not - one of the people who actually said, 'oh no not a bard' after the game said to me, "Bards are broken, but only when you play them."

And that guy? Every single round of every single combat he missed at least once because he was recklessly using Power Attack and then hit because my bonuses that I granted him to hit. How did I know that - because when I reminded him of his bonuses to hit, he'd curse and realize he had forgotten to add them in...