I think the main problem with the boots (aside from attunement) is one it share with the Jump spell: it does not give you additional "Jump" movement to help you take advantage of the increased jump range without using your action and such. It would not be out of line at all to have the boots and the spell grant you an additional 30' Jump movement in any direction as part of your move action. Easy peasy, no looking up jump rules and calculating how much movement you have based on your strength and all that jazz.
D&D 5E Boots of Striding and Springing.......kinda lame
Can you? or is this just a ruling to cover the already-poorly written rule? The text (PHB 182) says you need to make the move "immediately before the jump". "Immediately" does not suggest to me "in the previous round". Is the word used in this way anywhere else?
flametitan
Explorer
Just a bit of trivia I noticed, as I got confused as to why people were talking about attunement: The version LMoP doesn't require attunement, so either LMoP got something misprinted, or the internal playtesters at wotc found a reason for it to require attunement between the adventure and the DMG (not that it really matters for my own group; so far they haven't found enough items to hit the limits of attunement anyway).
Are you suggesting that the characters are actually forced to stop moving between turns?
The Crimson Binome
Hero
It's not like your character literally stops at the end of their turn and waits for everything else to happen before they resume movement. If you need to make a long jump, and you used your full movement in the previous round, then you were moving immediately prior to making the jump.
The rules of the game - the round structure, and the jumping rules - describe what's going on within the narrative. They don't define it. And in this case, it should be fairly clear as to what's happening within the narrative, and why the rules allow this type of movement. (Less clear is how these boots mysteriously know about the concept of rounds. It seems likely that this unnecessary line was just included in hopes of expediting gameplay.)
I'm not suggesting anything; I am asking a question about a particular rule, because assumptions are being made that seem neither to use natural language, nor to understand a word like "immediately" the way it is used elsewhere in the book. (e.g. "The spell effect ends immediately" does not mean at the end of your turn, or the end of your next turn.).
So -- to do a running long jump, you need to move 10 before jumping, and yo are both implying (if I understand you correctly) that the ten feet can occur in the previous turn.
If that is so, that's a new understanding of "immediately".
Let's say someone does move 10' in the previous turn, and then they attack. Can they still do a running long jump next turn, using that 10' of movement? I'd say obviously not. move--attack--end of turn--jump. The jump is not "immediate" by any sense.
Let's try again. Someone moves 10' in the previous turn, and then they are attacked. Can they still do a running long jump next turn, using that 10' of movement? Again, I'd say obviously not. move--end of turn--get attacked--possibly take damage--jump. The jump is not "immediate" by any sense.
I can see why you might want the move to occur in the previous turn, and why that might make sense *if* the character is not attacked, or makes any checks, etc. But the plain reading of the text, as far as I can see, is as I described above: on your turn you move ten feet, do not attack or take another action, and then begin the jump.
I'm not trying to force this interpretation onto anyone, and (as I also suggested) there are tweaks to the rules that help make this rule more natural in play. But the situation is not clear, and this ambiguity supports the OP's point about the weakness of the magic item.
Not at all. It has to be the thing you did immediately before you jump. And unless you are suggesting that the PC's are actually moving in a stop-motion fashion, that 10 feet of movement can occur on the previous round - as long as it was the last thing you did on your turn that round. You next turn follows immediately after your previous turn, no time passes between them. As a player you pause to allow all the other creatures involved to resolve their actions that (in theory) occurred during the same six seconds as your turn, but for the character it's a seamless flow of actions (in theory).
So for your character, the last you do on your previous turn occurs immediately before the first thing you do on your current turn. (And of course, the actions of other individuals in the combat may make it impossible to attempt the jump, regardless of how you moved.)
The Crimson Binome
Hero
The problem with this example is that there's a monster in front of them, preventing them from making a long jump. The movement that you make needs to be in the direction of the jump, and if you're running straight at the monster, then there's no room to make the jump. If it's a ghost or something that you intend to jump through, or a goblin that you want to jump over, then whether you're still carrying your momentum at the end of your movement depends on whether you stood around for four seconds and then moved and attacked while moving, or moved and then stopped and then attacked. Both actions would play out with similar mechanics on your first turn, but one of them sets you up for a jump on the next turn and the other does not.
If you have a move speed of 30 feet, then moving 30 feet in a round means that you're literally moving for that whole period of six seconds. That's what it means to move your whole speed in the round. Anything that you do on your next round is something which takes place immediately after moving, because that's the definition of the word.
Or to get straight to the point, there's no difference within the game world that could distinguish between moving at the end of your turn or moving at the beginning of your turn, because turns are just an abstraction to facilitate gameplay, and therefore the outcome of your action cannot possibly depend on whether your run-up took place at the end of your last turn or the beginning of this turn. Imposing the turn structure is a way of helping us to resolve time-critical situations, but it doesn't actually change what you are capable of doing.
(sorry, crossed posts; that was to Caliban).
Because you are not engaging with my examples, and not providing any of your own, I really don't know what you are thinking. When you are talking about "actions of other individuals" are you including their attacks? Successful or unsuccessful? It's not clear.
However unnatural it is, D&D combat and movement *does* happen with stop-motion. Two opponents stand 15 feet away from each other. If they are entering melee combat, one of them needs to close that distance, and that one gets to attack first. (Unless the other had a higher initiative and readied an action.). Either way, the sequence is important, and that sequence is governed by initiative. Is that "natural"? no, but it is the game we're talking about.
What about reactions, or bonus actions? Do they interrupt "immediately"? We just don't know with your approach.
Plus, the word Immediately is used elsewhere to have the meaning I am ascribing to it.
I get that your approach makes sense, but since the point of the whole thread is the weakness of a magic item that lets you Jump, it is entirely relevant that the rules for jumping themselves are themselves "kinda lame".
You can create interpretations that reduce but do not eliminate that oddness, if you want (as it's clear you do). But let's take a step back:
Do you believe that long jumps are *expected* to have the run-up at the end of the last turn? That to me is a big assumption, and it also is not paralleled by other actions in the game, so far as I can see. If that's your interpretation (and that the full benefit of these shoes for someone with 15 strength depends on that assumption), then I'd want some sense of why you think it's inevitable, or why that makes better sense than my alternative.
Because you are not engaging with my examples, and not providing any of your own, I really don't know what you are thinking. When you are talking about "actions of other individuals" are you including their attacks? Successful or unsuccessful? It's not clear.
However unnatural it is, D&D combat and movement *does* happen with stop-motion. Two opponents stand 15 feet away from each other. If they are entering melee combat, one of them needs to close that distance, and that one gets to attack first. (Unless the other had a higher initiative and readied an action.). Either way, the sequence is important, and that sequence is governed by initiative. Is that "natural"? no, but it is the game we're talking about.
What about reactions, or bonus actions? Do they interrupt "immediately"? We just don't know with your approach.
Plus, the word Immediately is used elsewhere to have the meaning I am ascribing to it.
I get that your approach makes sense, but since the point of the whole thread is the weakness of a magic item that lets you Jump, it is entirely relevant that the rules for jumping themselves are themselves "kinda lame".
You can create interpretations that reduce but do not eliminate that oddness, if you want (as it's clear you do). But let's take a step back:
Do you believe that long jumps are *expected* to have the run-up at the end of the last turn? That to me is a big assumption, and it also is not paralleled by other actions in the game, so far as I can see. If that's your interpretation (and that the full benefit of these shoes for someone with 15 strength depends on that assumption), then I'd want some sense of why you think it's inevitable, or why that makes better sense than my alternative.
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