D&D 4E A gathering of Martial Controllers - what do you think

[Garthanos]

Surprise Attack Rogue Feature
When you hit an enemy that you have Combat Advantage against with a basic attack or power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following in addition to other effects:
* You slide the target up to 2 squares.
* The target falls prone.
* The target is slowed (save ends).
* Make a basic attack as a minor action against one other enemy whom you have not hit on the same turn. If you hit, you inflict only DEX mod damage, but, if you have combat advantage, may apply a Surprise Attack effect.

Secret Thrust Rogue Feature
When you use a daily or encounter attack power with the martial keyword, you can apply one of the following extra benefits to conditions imposed on enemy(ies) targeted by the attack against whom you had combat advantage when you resolved the attack:
* If the attack imposes a condition until the end of your next turn, it gains an after-effect: the same condition (save ends)
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: slowed -> immobilized -> restrained
* If the attack imposes (or the target is already under) one of the following conditions, you can impose the next condition in the list, instead: unable to take OA -> dazed -> stunned
Special: You cannot gain the same extra benefit from using a Secret Thrust again until after the current encounter ends.

It has occurred to me we have a general issue not specifically with the above but rather with the game in a more general sense... One might call it Faux Versatility there seems to be a tendency for excessively rewarded specialization to progressively undermine actual versatility as the characters level... so sure you have 1 ability that can do 4 things but you/your allies all have headsman's chop and things to hold the dropped enemies down etc etc etc to the degree that well... screw any of the other options. This actually hit me when i suggested an extra at-will I suppose.

 

[Garthanos]

And yes i heard the problem was even worse in a previous edition where the "one hit" wonder was so common.... but it doesn't mean it cannot be a problem even so.

What if the core bonuses for role started the ball rolling and were flexible... For instance one might even have a stance you can swap with another.

I do not know how well the Berzerker managed to multi-task or how decision driven that was but it seems a bit like it might tweak what I am talking about a little.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And yes i heard the problem was even worse in a previous edition where the "one hit" wonder was so common.... but it doesn't mean it cannot be a problem even so.

What if the core bonuses for role started the ball rolling and were flexible... For instance one might even have a stance you can swap with another.

I do not know how well the Berzerker managed to multi-task or how decision driven that was but it seems a bit like it might tweak what I am talking about a little.

Its a thought

 

[Garthanos]

Its a thought

If you can swap our a function or 2 to switch roles and have that actually switches "roles"... that would beone real bit of versatility eh.

A stance that lets you absorb damage and mark things and pushes become pulls... LOL instant defender

 

[Tony Vargas]

Hey now! In a non charop-ey game, the executioner works fine! Lol

Ok, half the poisons suck, and the other half are just ok. The one use ones need an extra die of damage, and the longer term ones need to add a stat mod damage or something.

But the class framework is, IMO, excellent.

I took a careful look at the Executioner (it was in HoS, so no surprise I'd barely given it a chance before, right), and, well.

Not see'n any potential there.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

I took a careful look at the Executioner (it was in HoS, so no surprise I'd barely given it a chance before, right), and, well.

Not see'n any potential there.

What's the issue? Its not a bad class. I thought its mechanics were a bit gamist in order to conform to the normal function of powers (even though you actually can do some things that most powers can't). The poisons themselves are mediocre powers, but not terrible. Its like a LOT of E-Classes, it works, you just can't trick it out to extremes like with a lot of the PHB1 classes. Obviously it didn't get much support either.

There's nothing to recommend this class as an element of an optimized character. OTOH if you were handed the character, or don't care about that, you can have fun with it and it won't be crippled.

 

[darkbard]

I would also note that the Executioner's striker mechanic is the only of its kind that loses nothing in hybridding, so it makes an excellent hybrid Striker (particularly with Warlock).

 

[Tony Vargas]

What's the issue? Its not a bad class.

In this context, the Knight/Slayer and Thief, intentional thowbacks to martial inferiority though they were, offered a mechanic - stances & tricks, respectively, and the precedent of substantially altering parent-class features, that were helpful, to me, in inspiring a martial controller take on those classes.

I thought I remembered the Executioner having a mechanically slick way of incorporating poisons & special gear into the power system. I was mistaken.

 

[Garthanos]

heroes of Shadow.. ooh that reminds me they had a power i think will make a interesting Warlord power after a bit of flavor hyjinx

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I took a careful look at the Executioner (it was in HoS, so no surprise I'd barely given it a chance before, right), and, well.

Not see'n any potential there.

IIRC, you don't really like 4e strikers in general, right?

But the at-wills were fun and versatile, the poisons had plenty of potential (just lacking damage numbers), and the class features, like Lethal, are fun and evocotive.

Other than the damage numbers not being impressive, it's a great class. One of my favorites in a non optimized game.

I'd still rather have encounter powers, and be able to burn them to add damage dice to an at-will attack, or something, but assassin's strike works.