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D&D 5E Mike Mearls interview - states that they may be getting off of the 2 AP/year train.

Kabouter Games

Explorer
I would like to see disposable modules on newsprint or like a magazine. It would make it feel ok to write all over them and use them how you like. It is most likely not a good business model though.

That's what I want, too - modules. Modules like in the Grand Old Days, with non-glossy, black-and-white printing on relatively cheap pulp paper, saddle-stitched with staples, all enclosed in a cardboard "cover" that was really the maps. 2-6 hours of play, for a limited level range. Priced around $10. I know they have DM's Guild for that now, but there are two problems with that paradigm - there is no "official" D&D adventure product beyond the $50 hardcovers and the Adventurer's League downloadables. There are tons of folks who just won't buy a non-branded adventure, no matter how well regarded, from DM's Guild, because they have no faith that 3rd-party content is any good; they think - rightly or wrongly - that if the content has the (c) WotC text on it it's got to be good. Further, they also don't particularly want a hardcover AP. Even further, there are tons of folks who have the APs but want branded tie-in content in short form. I believe if Wizards developed short-format adventures, printed them, and shipped them to game stores and cons, they'd sell.

Does anyone know why the short-form printed adventure died?

Spelljammer. I want Spelljammer.

YES PLEASE NAOW I WANT TO D&D IN SPAAAAAAACE

IIRC they actually wanted it to be even "walk into store, get any one book, leave", because even one 5e adventure book (without the core books) should be playable, when you download Basic for free.

That's the best thing ever, in my opinion. When creating my adventures for DM's Guild, I do everything in my power to keep them playable with just the free Basic Rules PDFs. Sometimes I dip into the SRD, but that's only really for magic items.

Regards,

Bob

www.r-p-davis.com
 

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oknazevad

Explorer
Does anyone know why the short-form printed adventure died?

www.r-p-davis.com

From what I've read, it's because the saddle stapled booklets, with their lack of spines, too easily get lost on store shelves and so are easily overlooked, depressing sales. It's why Pathfinder APs, one-part modules, etc are square-bound "prestige" format, though that raises costs (and therefore prices), making them not quite the inexpensive, disposable items that some are looking for.

To that end, the PDF-only AL modules are really intended to fill that niche, though they do have some level of tie-in to their season storyline as part of the "story first" paradigm of 5e releases.
 

Kabouter Games

Explorer
From what I've read, it's because the saddle stapled booklets, with their lack of spines, too easily get lost on store shelves and so are easily overlooked, depressing sales. It's why Pathfinder APs, one-part modules, etc are square-bound "prestige" format, though that raises costs (and therefore prices), making them not quite the inexpensive, disposable items that some are looking for.

That makes sense, though the solution to that - to me, at least, speaking as someone who deals in such items for my Real Job [tm] - is a matter of retailer training, not just nixing the whole product line. Display is a relatively easy problem to sort, and if you have a rep making the rounds of the retailers, that rep can give all manner of ideas for shelf-space optimization. As it's also in the retailer's best interest to display product in the most advantageous manner, it's a win-win.

To that end, the PDF-only AL modules are really intended to fill that niche, though they do have some level of tie-in to their season storyline as part of the "story first" paradigm of 5e releases.

Yeah, the AL modules are great, well-tested, and well-written. But as you note, they're all tied in to the hardcover storylines - not stand-alone adventures, not without a not insignificant amount of work on the DM's part - and they're delivered as PDFs, which adds expense and logistical onus on the purchaser.

Anyway, it appears we won't be getting Wizards-generated, stand-alone short adventures anytime soon. Shame.
 

That makes sense, though the solution to that - to me, at least, speaking as someone who deals in such items for my Real Job [tm] - is a matter of retailer training, not just nixing the whole product line. Display is a relatively easy problem to sort, and if you have a rep making the rounds of the retailers, that rep can give all manner of ideas for shelf-space optimization. As it's also in the retailer's best interest to display product in the most advantageous manner, it's a win-win.
Hiring someone to drive across the continent and visit every one of 2000 WPN gaming stores - to say nothing of other game stores, chain book stores, etc - sounds super expensive. More than enough to wipe out profits from cheap gaming products.
Plus, it generally requires stores to buy new shelving. Which is expensive. It's easier for stores to just not order the product.

At the end of the day, WotC has no control over the stores. Only their own books. They can recommend and advise on displays until their faces are blue but it's no guarantee of action. It's gambling sales.

Yeah, the AL modules are great, well-tested, and well-written. But as you note, they're all tied in to the hardcover storylines - not stand-alone adventures, not without a not insignificant amount of work on the DM's part - and they're delivered as PDFs, which adds expense and logistical onus on the purchaser.

Anyway, it appears we won't be getting Wizards-generated, stand-alone short adventures anytime soon. Shame.
There are LOTS of excellent non-WotC adventures on the Guild. The MT Black stuff is outselling the gunslinger now.

And AL is mostly stand alone but divided into level arc based storylines. No different than Against the Giants or Slavers. Inspired by the storylines but very different
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
Spelljammer. I want Spelljammer.


YES PLEASE NAOW I WANT TO D&D IN SPAAAAAAACE

Is Starfinder from Paizo going to scratch that itch? Or is it 5e D&D in space that's required?

Also I still wonder how long Paizo is going to hold out before they update some of their old APs for 5e OGL - if the 5e market is as huge as people are saying then it seems silly for them to not try to take some of that share?
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Yeah, the AL modules are great, well-tested, and well-written.
As a differing view I find them lacking in almost every area: they are not published (PDF only), they have poor production values (no color, poor quality maps), they are often poorly edited, tested and weighed down by the convention format that needs to account for every type of player and party, and with strict time-limits that simply doesn't exist in home play - most consist of mediocre encounters strung along with the barest of attempts at plot and coherency, with no breadth or depth to speak of. I rarely found them worth my while even back when they did not cost actual money.

In my opinion they are poor replacements for the adventure modules or supplements of AD&D and 3rd Edition.
 

thalmin

Retired game store owner
I would like to see the return of a monthly softcover adventure release. Perhaps make it a periodical, like Dungeon Magazine.

The charm of D&D (for me) is that it is a paper & pencil tabletop game you can play live with friends. Please don't force us to use a computer device to prepare or play the game.
 

Kabouter Games

Explorer
Hiring someone to drive across the continent and visit every one of 2000 WPN gaming stores - to say nothing of other game stores, chain book stores, etc - sounds super expensive. More than enough to wipe out profits from cheap gaming products.

Huh. Guess their advertising to fill at least one of those positions on Wizards.com is a fluke, then. ;) That's sarcastic, but it's true: There's a store rep job open now in Germany.

Plus, it generally requires stores to buy new shelving. Which is expensive. It's easier for stores to just not order the product.

Not at the stores I've been to in the past two years. They've got plenty of configurable shelf space, as well as the human assets to rearrange product. It requires the stores to not deliberately screw up their feng shui, and instead learn how to actually conduct a retail store instead of a tarted-up spot where they can play Warcraft. Especially if they also sell comics!

What you've got there is a lame excuse, not a reason. That's not to say stores won't use it. But that's what it is. :)

At the end of the day, WotC has no control over the stores. Only their own books. They can recommend and advise on displays until their faces are blue but it's no guarantee of action. It's gambling sales.

Of course they have no control over the stores. No manufacturer does. It's always gambling sales. That's why you fight for prime shelf space, with shelf-talkers, end-cap space, and all that. Hasbro knows all about it.

There are LOTS of excellent non-WotC adventures on the Guild. The MT Black stuff is outselling the gunslinger now.

I never said there wasn't. I said there are no Wizards-generated modules like Ye Olde Tymes.

Is Starfinder from Paizo going to scratch that itch? Or is it 5e D&D in space that's required?

I don't play Pathfinder if I can help it. Not because it's a bad game, nor am I judging anyone who does like it; I just prefer my RPGs less complicated. I've been pondering taking a stab at porting the old Spelljammer stuff I have on the shelf for 5e, but that's daunting for the amateur.

As a differing view I find them lacking in almost every area: they are not published (PDF only), they have poor production values (no color, poor quality maps), they are often poorly edited, tested and weighed down by the convention format that needs to account for every type of player and party, and with strict time-limits that simply doesn't exist in home play - most consist of mediocre encounters strung along with the barest of attempts at plot and coherency, with no breadth or depth to speak of. I rarely found them worth my while even back when they did not cost actual money.

In my opinion they are poor replacements for the adventure modules or supplements of AD&D and 3rd Edition.

I don't disagree. The AL stuff certainly isn't the AD&D module in terms of quality; I ought to know, as I both participate in AL and produce conversions for Classic Modules Today. They're also download-only, which I've already pointed out is a strike against them for some consumers.

But the AL modules are the only short-form D&D content Wizards is producing where they still conform to the AD&D/3E production model of "pay freelancer, play-test, edit, lay out, publish as Official Product." Some people, here on Enworld and elsewhere, don't trust the 3rd-party efforts of DM's Guild. I can't say I blame them much, because there's so much dreck on that site.* There's very little assurance beyond an author's word that the content is play-tested and worth buying and the time to play it. In the days of the printed module, you may not have liked it much, but you could be assured that TSR wouldn't bother to put out something that wasn't even proof-read, not even in Dungeon magazine.

Cheers,

Bob
* And that's speaking as someone who sells adventures on DM's Guild!
 

flametitan

Explorer
Is Starfinder from Paizo going to scratch that itch? Or is it 5e D&D in space that's required?

Probably not; from the previews I've seen, Starfinder seemed to lean towards "generic sci-fi using Pathfinder rules," while Spelljammer fills a completely different niche.
 

Kabouter Games

Explorer
I would like to see the return of a monthly softcover adventure release. Perhaps make it a periodical, like Dungeon Magazine.

That would be brilliant! If they printed a "Best of DM's Guild" or something, it'd be like the old days of Dungeon without a physical slush pile. They could just sift through the top-rated adventures and select those of appropriate length or theme.

In fact, that'd be a great way for them to publish print copies of decent adventures without going to the trouble (or cost) of anything other than having someone read the module, check it for egregious errors/issues, and laying it out for a print magazine.
 

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