How should a GM handle refused plots

[doctorbadwolf]

My personal strategies are as follows:

First, I try to avoid the situation, but I don't resort to going full sandbox to do so. No one in my group prefers that, we all want to tell a story.
So, that said, how do you avoid refused plots? Always design the plot to appeal to the players, specifically in the context of their current characters. Use NPCs from their background/past, current contacts, etc.

I expect my players to give me:
*3 contacts/people they care about. 1 can be from their origins/growing up/etc. 1 has to be related to the campaign world and how they fit into it. ie, in Eberron, I want a contact that is related to The Last War and/or The Mourning, for 99 percent of characters. 3rd contact should be something recent, but can be from before the campaign begins. For Eberron, someone that informs me on what you've been doing since the war ended.

*1 or more goal for the future of the character. Something the character wants to accomplish, in the near future (ie, not something that can wait till they're old)

*An actual backstory, not just rolling on some tables for a background. WHere are you from, who is your family, please don't kill your family in your background that trope is so tired I'm suspicious that it's secretly a vampire masquerading as it's own grandson (another Eberron reference, there), what friends and enemies do you have, what do you do for a living/what did you do for a living before adventuring, etc.

This makes it much easier to plot a course that will lead to player engagement, because I'm building the plot around what ties their character to the world.


But what about when it doesn't work, and the plot is being refused? Most of the time, my answer to myself when this happens is to suck it up and correct course. I review the plot, if it's already in progress, see if i can identify what is not engaging my players, if so I fix that if possible, and if not I cut out as much of the plot as possible and work in a tie-in to something different.

If somehow that doesn't work, I have, once, just found a good stopping point, ended the session early, had a talk about how the story arc should wrap up, and then asked questions about what was and wasn't working. Then, next session, we begin after that arc wrapped up off screen, maybe days or months later, with a completely different plot thread to follow.

The concept of "forcing" them to run through a plot they don't care about is unfathomable, to me. How would that even work? I don't have any actual power over them. They can literally just say no.

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I expect my players to give me:
*3 contacts/people they care about. 1 can be from their origins/growing up/etc. 1 has to be related to the campaign world and how they fit into it. ie, in Eberron, I want a contact that is related to The Last War and/or The Mourning, for 99 percent of characters. 3rd contact should be something recent, but can be from before the campaign begins. For Eberron, someone that informs me on what you've been doing since the war ended.

*1 or more goal for the future of the character. Something the character wants to accomplish, in the near future (ie, not something that can wait till they're old)

*An actual backstory, not just rolling on some tables for a background. WHere are you from, who is your family, please don't kill your family in your background that trope is so tired I'm suspicious that it's secretly a vampire masquerading as it's own grandson (another Eberron reference, there), what friends and enemies do you have, what do you do for a living/what did you do for a living before adventuring, etc.

This sounds like way too much work.

 

[TwoSix]

This sounds like way too much work.

For the DM, or the players?

 

[Michael Silverbane]

For the DM, or the players?

Yes.

But, primarily, for me. Coming up with a backstory, a family, a work history, and so on, for a character that I haven't played yet, and don't even know if I will like...? No thank you.

 

[TwoSix]

Yes.

But, primarily, for me. Coming up with a backstory, a family, a work history, and so on, for a character that I haven't played yet, and don't even know if I will like...? No thank you.

Huh. I don't need a long detailed history for your PC when I'm DMing, but a short/medium-term goal and a couple of contacts seems like a pretty normal pre-game setup to me. Everybody's different, I guess.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Huh. I don't need a long detailed history for your PC when I'm DMing, but a short/medium-term goal and a couple of contacts seems like a pretty normal pre-game setup to me. Everybody's different, I guess.

Yeah, I definately don't need pages of info, it's literally like 6 sentences total. No blank slate characters at my table. I can't imagine ever being cool with there being someone at the table that has no interest in even having a basic backstory, or any connection to the world.

Definately wouldn't be a good fit at my table.

Also, it...is a tiny, even trivial, amount of "work".

 

[Michael Silverbane]

Yeah, I definately don't need pages of info, it's literally like 6 sentences total. No blank slate characters at my table. I can't imagine ever being cool with there being someone at the table that has no interest in even having a basic backstory, or any connection to the world.

Definately wouldn't be a good fit at my table.

Also, it...is a tiny, even trivial, amount of "work".

I find it highly unlikely that you could fit all of the information that you've said above that you require into six sentences. If you had examples, from characters that are (were) actually in games, that would help.

It still seems like a butt-load of work, on top of making the character in the first place and, presumably, establishing connections to the other player characters, now I have to come up with several (3 contacts, at least two family members, and an unspecified number of friends and enemies) NPCs. That seems like stuff the DM should be doing.

 

[ccs]

Yes.

But, primarily, for me. Coming up with a backstory, a family, a work history, and so on, for a character that I haven't played yet, and don't even know if I will like...? No thank you.

But.... This is one of the ways to get to like your character. You give them a few interesting details & a reason why they've taken up the adventuring life. You don't have to write something the size of War & Peace, just a paragraph or two.

And in my games doing this during pc creation will save you/the rest of us some time & prevent a # of (often nasty) surprises.
Sure, you can make PC - with - no - background. And that'll fly for a few sessions. Though during that time I, the DM, WILL be gently pressing you for some details. You don't have to tell the other players. And you certainly don't have to tell their characters.... But you DO have to tell ME. Because I'm playing the world, the gods, the fates, etc etc etc & your character exists in my domain. You don't get to have secrets from the DM.
If you refuse to supply info then 1 of 2 things happens:
1) Your character is removed from the game. I don't like this option. There's no creativity involved.
2) Details will be supplied for you. These will almost always impact the whole party & often as negative plot twists, complications, etc.
Ex: A few years ago in a PF campaign one of the guys rolled up a bard as a replacement PC. He gave him a name, described him as wearing a black leather costume like Gene Simmons of KISS, & equipped the character with studded leather armor and a rapier.
That's it, that's all. No backstory at all, didn't bother spending any of the 30k worth of his allowed WBL. Was completely vague about why he was where he was when he joined the party. Several sessions pass with me asking him questions. No info forthcoming. OK....
So the next major town they roll into? They get jumped by his 4 former band mates - who are not at all happy with "Gene" as apparently he made off with 30k. And they want it back.
The party legitimately gets their arses kicked by 4 BARDS.
They awake up robbed & having been sold to work as slaves on the oar crew aboard a galley. They are also well out at sea.
The other players lost alot of nice loot & being abducted like this screwed up more than a few of thier plans.
And though everyone did have fun playing the adventures to come, that bard player is never allowed to forget that everything past a certain point was HIS fault.
Now the group polices each other & makes sure everyone has some sort of backstory. They'd like to have some say....

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I would very much rather come up with a few details at a time about a character during play than worry about a whole life's story all at once.

Sure, I will likely have an immediate, 'reason for adventuring.' which may be something like, "can't cope with civilized society." or, "it beats living on the streets." or "it is a way to give back." which may then lead to questions that are answered in play.

 

[Schmoe]

Early in a campaign, I generally start off with one hook that everyone has tacitly agreed to follow. The hook can be as simple as the intent to go plunder a nearby dungeon, or an agreement to play through a starter adventure/module. Once the game has begun, I introduce potential leads to the players, actively try to gauge their interest and anticipate where they will go or what they will do, and develop some more adventure material in that direction. So it's a back and forth between the DM and the players, where the DM presents ideas, and the players present what they are interested in.

That being said, I'm really confused by the following:

I played a game many years ago, and the GM had a PhD in Psychology. He literally knew how to manipulate players into going exactly where he wanted them to, and it drove me and another player absolutely NUTS. Once we'd figured out how he was playing us, we'd specifically go out of our way to do things he wouldn't expect. I specifically remember my sorcerer diving in the water in the port of this town looking for random adventure just to avoid doing the thing he wanted us to do.

How did you know that the DM was manipulating you? Before you found out, did the game feel organic? Did it feel like you were making your own decisions? If your perception of the game only changed after finding out that the DM was somehow manipulating the game, I'm not sure that's a good thing. As a DM, I will often gently nudge players in a certain direction, or I'll present adventure hooks, clues, and events that I think will push the game in a certain direction. I do this for a couple of reasons. First, it makes it easier for me to deliver a good adventure to the group. Second, being able to prepare for the group makes the game more enjoyable for me. If someone were to actively try to be disruptive just because they knew I was doing this, it would definitely kill the game for me.