D&D 5E What happened to the Hermaphrodites???

[Azzy]

As is mine. But mine refers to the term in question, not the replacement for the soft.



Of course it is. If it's fine for every other creature, including mammals, its fine for elves. The only reason it's not considered fine for humans is because people are whiny.

The fact that the scientific community "prefers" different terms just means they caved in, as evident by the fact that said different term is only applied to humans.

Right. Because people are whiny, and scientists caved in. LOL

 

[Yunru]

Right. Because people are whiny, and scientists caved in. LOL

Then explain why it's still used for every other creature, including mammals. Humans are not exceptional, so their exception reeks of caving to social whining.

 

[Azzy]

Then explain why it's still used for every other creature, including mammals. Humans are not exceptional, so their exception reeks of caving to social whining.

"Medical terminology has shifted not only due to concerns about language, but also a shift to understandings based on genetics."

Furthermore, "Currently, hermaphroditism is not to be confused with intersex, as the former refers only to a specific phenotypical presentation of sex organs and the latter to more complex combination of phenotypical and genotypical presentation. Using "hermaphrodite" to refer to intersex individuals is considered to be stigmatizing and misleading.[98] Hermaphrodite is used for animal and vegetal species in which the possession of both ovaries and testes is either serial or concurrent, and for living organisms without such gonads but present binary form of reproduction, which is part of the typical life history of those species; intersex has come to be used when this is not the case."

 

[Azzy]

Then explain why it's still used for every other creature, including mammals. Humans are not exceptional, so their exception reeks of caving to social whining.

"Medical terminology has shifted not only due to concerns about language, but also a shift to understandings based on genetics."

Furthermore, "Currently, hermaphroditism is not to be confused with intersex, as the former refers only to a specific phenotypical presentation of sex organs and the latter to more complex combination of phenotypical and genotypical presentation. Using "hermaphrodite" to refer to intersex individuals is considered to be stigmatizing and misleading.[98] Hermaphrodite is used for animal and vegetal species in which the possession of both ovaries and testes is either serial or concurrent, and for living organisms without such gonads but present binary form of reproduction, which is part of the typical life history of those species; intersex has come to be used when this is not the case."

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Then explain why it's still used for every other creature, including mammals.

Not a zoologist, but to the best of my knowledge there are no mammal hermaphrodites.

 

[MechaPilot]

For a long time I had trouble believing that anybody could actually be that level of horrible to somebody else's face when they're both ostensibly trying to entertain each other playing a cooperative game. The more I read about others' experiences, though, the more I realize that what I thought was social ineptitude in my own little band of geeks isn't even scratching the surface of just how sad, sick, and clueless people can get. I'm sorry to hear this. But can I assume from the fact that you're still here that your story has a happy ending and you did eventually find a group of decent human beings?

It's often quite difficult to think that some people, especially people who are part of the same general social group (i.e. gamers, geeks, etc.), can be so horrible to other people. Regrettably, I've had enough bad experiences* with people that I tend to assume the worst from them (while hoping for the best, but expecting to ultimately be disappointed by them). After the experience I mentioned, I did refrain from even attempting to get back into D&D for a few months. When I did, I was (understandably) concerned about what kind of people I could find to game with, how I would find them (since I certainly was never going back to the hobby shop where I first met the group that almost made me quit), and whether I should even attempt to make a female character again.

Ultimately, I did find another group to game with who were mostly decent people (although, sadly, one of them did eventually turn skinhead on us and left the group when he saw we weren't going to put up with his racist crap), but I was the GM introducing them to the game, and not playing as I had preferred back then (I still greatly enjoy playing, but I now also enjoy DM-ing as well).

My group changed members over the years as people moved and passed on, and friends of friends were invited to the table. Eventually the people I introduced to the game became confident enough to DM on their own, at which point we would take turns DM-ing, creating campaigns in a kind of round-robin storytelling that merged everyone's styles while allowing everyone to play in turn, and helping the fledgling DMs refine their skills.

I like to think that by persevering in the hobby I've helped mold a handful of new DMs who are open to creative ideas during play and who treat other people with respect and basic human dignity, and that the good I've done in that regard can outweigh the awfulness I've trudged through along the way.


*As a kid I was frequently bullied for my weight, my sexuality, and because my family was basically the poorest family in an upper-middle class neighborhood; also, my two best friends broke into my home and stole a few thousand dollars worth of video games and consoles.

Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot a single game book can do to fix the sad, sick, and clueless. I would like to believe that something in black and white like the PHB's entry on gender could be used as a sort of blunt instrument against a DM who had certain other ideas: you could point to it and say, "The rules allow me to do this, so let me do this!" But really, that's just the same misplaced optimism that made it so hard for me to believe players like that existed in the first place. A-holes are going to be a-holes regardless of some wording on a page. They're likely to reject it offhand, and even if they do acquiesce, that doesn't fix the underlying problem -- they're just going to find some other way to be a-holes. So no, I don't think the wording is there for them. It's there for the rest of us: to encourage those of us who might sometimes feel vulnerable in our lives to give this hobby the try, and to gently remind those of us who aren't committed a-holes but might still occasionally put our feet in our mouths to keep an open mind.

I agree. No statement in a book will prevent horrible behavior. The only thing that will truly do that is members of the gaming community being willing to stand up against it when they see it, instead of joining in or turning a blind eye or a deaf ear.

That said, I do think words in the book can open the minds of those who are decent people but who have just never given much thought to situations and people who are different in the manner described. The words in the book can lead to wondering what life is like for people who are different in that way, and it can lead to less fear of being judged for choosing to play a character who is different in that way (a fear that, admittedly, could be immediately slapped back into the player and magnified if the group she's with decides to treat her badly for that choice).

 

[Arial Black]

Strategy #3: Claim that the other party's offense is contrived or disingenuous.

I need your help.

While I agree that the three strategies you outlined are often used in the way you claim, what do we do when people really are contriving their reaction? What do we do if their claim to being offended really is bogus?

In most situations where two people disagree, they can have an honest discussion. But it seems as though any attempt at discussing the issue will result in claims of 'strategy 3' and automatically discarded and painted as a bigot to boot.

So, what should we do in the face of a false claim of being offended, whether that claim is either from ignorance or from dishonesty?

 

[MackMcMacky]

"Medical terminology has shifted not only due to concerns about language, but also a shift to understandings based on genetics."

Furthermore, "Currently, hermaphroditism is not to be confused with intersex, as the former refers only to a specific phenotypical presentation of sex organs and the latter to more complex combination of phenotypical and genotypical presentation. Using "hermaphrodite" to refer to intersex individuals is considered to be stigmatizing and misleading.[98] Hermaphrodite is used for animal and vegetal species in which the possession of both ovaries and testes is either serial or concurrent, and for living organisms without such gonads but present binary form of reproduction, which is part of the typical life history of those species; intersex has come to be used when this is not the case."

We're talking about a fantasy world, specifically an Elf Deity. Their physical manifestations are not based on scientific laws nor does a fantasy world need to address contemporary sociocultural dynamics with every fantasy race. It is a FANTASY world. We don't need to turn every fantasy race into a variation of a human being. Elves don't have to be humans with ears. You guys are placing some really boring limitations on what is possible concerning fantasy.

What if the deity of a sentient people had both male and female organs to represent the completeness of the concept of it as a creator deity? What if a fantasy world did not follow our taxonomy? What if that fantasy world's context has nothing to do with sociopolitical issues human beings face in the real world?

 

[Ganymede81]

What if the deity of a sentient people had both male and female organs to represent the completeness of the concept of it as a creator deity? What if a fantasy world did not follow our taxonomy? What if that fantasy world's context has nothing to do with sociopolitical issues human beings face in the real world?

I think this line of reasoning is ultimately a red herring.

The issue here isn't whether an fictitious elven god can be described as possessing both sets of reproductive organs. The issue is whether a foreword designed to help GLBT and Intersex gamers feel welcome playing D&D is the appropriate venue for such a description.

 

[jaelis]

I need your help.

While I agree that the three strategies you outlined are often used in the way you claim, what do we do when people really are contriving their reaction? What do we do if their claim to being offended really is bogus?

In most situations where two people disagree, they can have an honest discussion. But it seems as though any attempt at discussing the issue will result in claims of 'strategy 3' and automatically discarded and painted as a bigot to boot.

So, what should we do in the face of a false claim of being offended, whether that claim is either from ignorance or from dishonesty?

First why would someone falsely claim they were offended by something? It seems hard to understand what they would gain. Particularly if the target is underprivileged, which seems like the usual case where this comes up.

But second, the reason to be careful with language is to avoid being offensive. If you genuinely don't believe the offended party is being honest then you aren't being offensive so say what you want. Of course you run the risk of being wrong.