D&D 5E What happened to the Hermaphrodites???

[MackMcMacky]

I think this line of reasoning is ultimately a red herring.

The issue here isn't whether an fictitious elven god can be described as possessing both sets of reproductive organs. The issue is whether a foreword designed to help GLBT and Intersex gamers feel welcome playing D&D is the appropriate venue for such a description.

OP was referencing the Player's Handbook of different printings, page 121 specifically. Not a red herring at all.

 

[MackMcMacky]

First why would someone falsely claim they were offended by something? It seems hard to understand what they would gain. Particularly if the target is underprivileged, which seems like the usual case where this comes up.

But second, the reason to be careful with language is to avoid being offensive. If you genuinely don't believe the offended party is being honest then you aren't being offensive so say what you want. Of course you run the risk of being wrong.

Why would someone falsely claim offense about something? To gain leverage, promote their cause, distract from something else, etc. Human beings can be very manipulative, that includes all human beings, even the ones you or I might identify with.

 

[Ganymede81]

OP was referencing the Player's Handbook of different printings, page 121 specifically. Not a red herring at all.

Yeah, so was I.

 

[MackMcMacky]

Yeah, so was I.

Okay, you threw me with the "foreword". That's not a foreword as I understand it.

I get your point having read the page. In the context of the page it appears they were trying to address the players' approach to identity politics rather than simply describe Corellon Larethian's properties. Very clumsy. I can see why they changed it.

However, describing a nonhuman supernatural being with male and female organs as a hermaphrodite is not inherently insensitive.

 

[Ganymede81]

Okay, you threw me with the "foreword". That's not a foreword as I understand it.

To clarify, yes, I was referring to that prefatory language. Foreword, introduction, preface, whichevs.

I get your point having read the page. In the context of the page it appears they were trying to address the players' approach to identity politics rather than simply describe Corellon Larethian's properties. Very clumsy. I can see why they changed it.

However, describing a nonhuman supernatural being with male and female organs as a hermaphrodite is not inherently insensitive.

Yeah, sure, I generally agree with that; Corellon Larethian can be described as a hermaphrodite , but using that information as a way to make intersex gamers feel welcome is pretty reductive. The change seemed reasonable.

I'm not sure about the reference to "addressing the players' approach to identity politics," though. I'd instead say "addressing the actual identities of many players." I don't see this as a sop to any sort of political notion; I see it as a greeting to actual, real-life gamers.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

I'm not sure about the reference to "addressing the players' approach to identity politics," though. I'd instead say "addressing the actual identities of many players." I don't see this as a sop to any sort of political notion; I see it as a greeting to actual, real-life gamers.

In fact, they seem to be threading the needle there in avoiding "identity politics" by not using any of the contemporary identity labels.

 

[MechaPilot]

So, what should we do in the face of a false claim of being offended, whether that claim is either from ignorance or from dishonesty?

If someone claims to be offended by a term used to refer to them, the easiest and most polite way to handle it is to apologize and refrain from using it again in their presence. This is true regardless of whether the person claiming offense is being genuine.

The best solution is to apologize and refrain from use (as mentioned above) and then politely ask why the term is offensive to the person you're speaking with. Engaging the person claiming offense in a polite discourse will allow you to gain a better understanding of the other person and their position. If this discourse leads you to believe the person isn't being genuine about being offended, then the best way to handle it is just to politely end the discussion and not talk to that person again (after all why would you choose to continue interacting with someone you feel is lying to manipulate you or make you look bad).

 

[SkidAce]

If someone claims to be offended by a term used to refer to them, the easiest and most polite way to handle it is to apologize and refrain from using it again in their presence. This is true regardless of whether the person claiming offense is being genuine.

The best solution is to apologize and refrain from use (as mentioned above) and then politely ask why the term is offensive to the person you're speaking with. Engaging the person claiming offense in a polite discourse will allow you to gain a better understanding of the other person and their position. If this discourse leads you to believe the person isn't being genuine about being offended, then the best way to handle it is just to politely end the discussion and not talk to that person again (after all why would you choose to continue interacting with someone you feel is lying to manipulate you or make you look bad).

Very wise.

 

[MackMcMacky]

To clarify, yes, I was referring to that prefatory language. Foreword, introduction, preface, whichevs.



Yeah, sure, I generally agree with that; Corellon Larethian can be described as a hermaphrodite , but using that information as a way to make intersex gamers feel welcome is pretty reductive. The change seemed reasonable.

I'm not sure about the reference to "addressing the players' approach to identity politics," though. I'd instead say "addressing the actual identities of many players." I don't see this as a sop to any sort of political notion; I see it as a greeting to actual, real-life gamers.

Would they even have a paragraph about gender and sexual orientation if identity politics wasn't a thing in the world?

I'm not angling about the legitimacy of their decision by using the words 'identity politics'.

 

[MackMcMacky]

If someone claims to be offended by a term used to refer to them, the easiest and most polite way to handle it is to apologize and refrain from using it again in their presence. This is true regardless of whether the person claiming offense is being genuine.

The best solution is to apologize and refrain from use (as mentioned above) and then politely ask why the term is offensive to the person you're speaking with. Engaging the person claiming offense in a polite discourse will allow you to gain a better understanding of the other person and their position. If this discourse leads you to believe the person isn't being genuine about being offended, then the best way to handle it is just to politely end the discussion and not talk to that person again (after all why would you choose to continue interacting with someone you feel is lying to manipulate you or make you look bad).

I like to be a little more blunt when I feel like someone is jerking me around but I wouldn't claim that is the wisest course of action. It is very cathartic though.