D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats

[Caliban]

My group has rolled up characters at the table. We use the 4d6 and drop the lowest. After they roll up a set of 6 stats, I look it over and if it turns out to be too powerful or too weak, I tell them to roll again. Most of the re-rolls seem to be due to low stats.

I think part of the problem with 5e stems from the racial bonuses. They are higher than with older versions of D&D... and bonuses for stats start at lower values. So, it is easy to end up with characters with +5 to hit at level 1.

With that said, most of the chars in my group have some low stats. One fighter type character has an Int of 6.

To me, rolling up characters is half the fun of getting started. I'll tell you, my group had a great time rolling up chars for DCC... and laughing at how awful most of the chars were.

...as I said, other people feel the opposite way I do. Good for you, and I'm happy you enjoyed yourself.

But since none of that happened to me, it doesn't change my experiences or preferences.

 

[Satyrn]

I'm curious in what ways the game is smoother with arrays.

First, it's not the arrays specifically. As I said, our rolling system was of the rather generous sort. So the big change is that our starting stats are lower.

It's those lower starting scores that I find to be the improvement.

So that clarification out of the way, let's see if I can answer your question. I'm gonna skip why I find the game runs smoother from the DM's side, since I think you already know what I'd say - at least some of it's been talked about in the forums a lot, what with all the suggestions to up the number of foes, increase their hit points, and all that jazz. There's less of a sense we need to do that now.

So, as a player. And let me tell you, this surprised me. The best thing for me about switching to the array was not having a chance to start with anything at 18-20. It changed my perspective on what is a high stat. Since a 17 is the best I can get, I'm not just totally fine (powergame-wise) having a 16 in my prime stat, those 14s and 15s feel fine, too. And even 12 and 13 feels like it contributes.

And I just care less about what my numbers are now.

It's been freeing.


So even more specifically, what I really like is that the range of ability score modifiers has been reduced from 10 points (-4 to +5) down to 5 (-1 to +3). Its like the World of Darkness dots! Or its tightening up bounded accuracy even more.

 

[Yardiff]

Now I could be wrong on this but the way I understand 5e. If you use feats you need/should to adjust encounters. If you use multi-classing you need/should adjust. If you use magic items you need/should adjust. So higher starting abilities scores shouldn't be much of an issue.

 

[Maxperson]

But you still GOT a new spell slot. So if not flaming sphere then odds are another damage spell. On the other hand, a frontline fighter who rolls a few 1's for their early HP is severely hampered in doing their desired function. HP are a character resource. They shouldn't be randomly determined.

This was intended. Life isn't always fair. However, if you don't like you it can of course change the rules. What we did was if a player rolled low(1-2 on a d6, 1-3 on a d8, 1-4 on a d10, etc), then the next level you had to roll above half, so 5 on a d8 or 6 on a d10. That kept things random and didn't guarantee high hit points, but prevented rolling 2 or 3 levels in a row low and really hampering survival rates.

 

[Tony Vargas]

This was intended. Life isn't always fair.
.

All the more reason games should be...
..and balanced, too.

 

[ddaley]

I actually prefer older style D&D where things were less balanced. Magic users began with d4 hit points and 1 spell per day. They had to struggle for a number of levels before really gaining their stride.

Fighters and clerics started out strong. Fighters eventually excelled in fighting, but clerics picked up valuable spells. Thieves were necessary and had their place in the party... but balanced in combat was nowhere to be found. Each class had distinct value and were necessary (or at least quite valued).

Today, I feel that it doesn't matter so much what the composition of the party is. Classes are too balanced.

All the more reason games should be...
..and balanced, too.

 

[Maxperson]

First, it's not the arrays specifically. As I said, our rolling system was of the rather generous sort. So the big change is that our starting stats are lower.

It's those lower starting scores that I find to be the improvement.

So that clarification out of the way, let's see if I can answer your question. I'm gonna skip why I find the game runs smoother from the DM's side, since I think you already know what I'd say - at least some of it's been talked about in the forums a lot, what with all the suggestions to up the number of foes, increase their hit points, and all that jazz. There's less of a sense we need to do that now.

So, as a player. And let me tell you, this surprised me. The best thing for me about switching to the array was not having a chance to start with anything at 18-20. It changed my perspective on what is a high stat. Since a 17 is the best I can get, I'm not just totally fine (powergame-wise) having a 16 in my prime stat, those 14s and 15s feel fine, too. And even 12 and 13 feels like it contributes.

And I just care less about what my numbers are now.

It's been freeing.


So even more specifically, what I really like is that the range of ability score modifiers has been reduced from 10 points (-4 to +5) down to 5 (-1 to +3). Its like the World of Darkness dots! Or its tightening up bounded accuracy even more.

It sounds like things a player aren't smoother so much as your perception of the game is different, which allows you to be more relaxed about it. rougher/smoother to me has more to do with mechanical bumps and jolts.

As a DM, I haven't had to engage in those DM "fixes" some people describe. Maybe that's due to how I set up encounters, though. I don't care about stats or hit points. Instead, I look at a PC strengths and weaknesses due to class mechanics and match up monster abilities and weaknesses against those. It makes it much easier for me to plan easy, moderate, challenging and hard encounters that way.

 

[Maxperson]

All the more reason games should be...
..and balanced, too.

As you and I have argued, rolling is fair if everyone does it, so...

 

[Caliburn101]

I've seen lots of them. You should choose better people to game with.

Useless advice unless you can lend me your 'better person detector' or the rose tinted glasses you remember previous games through...

 

[Maxperson]

Useless advice unless you can lend me your 'better person detector' or the rose tinted glasses you remember previous games through...

I wear no rose tinted glasses and it only takes an average person detector or better to find people who don't cheat. Note that I didn't say I've never encountered cheaters. I'm only saying that I've encountered a great many that don't cheat and bring average or even low stats to the table. If you haven't encountered any, your detector is completely broken.