D&D 5E Great scores weak subclass; strong subclass so-so scores

[Voadam]

I think race is the least important aspect there.

Subclass can do a lot and stats can do a lot for different builds. For those two I expect it to vary by specifics.

I generally feel that I would prefer high stats for a lot of builds and I would prioritize that given the choice. Given the choice of high stats and top tier subclasses being barred I feel I would be fine power wise with a lot of fun options, while top tier subclasses with sub par stats might be effectively more one trick ponies and a bit less powerful and a bit less fun to play.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

I think race is the least important aspect there.

Subclass can do a lot and stats can do a lot for different builds. For those two I expect it to vary by specifics.

I generally feel that I would prefer high stats for a lot of builds and I would prioritize that given the choice. Given the choice of high stats and top tier subclasses being barred I feel I would be fine power wise with a lot of fun options, while top tier subclasses with sub par stats might be effectively more one trick ponies and a bit less powerful and a bit less fun to play.

I am excited about this opportunity.

I have no pressure to take ASIs and am going with weird fun feats. Almost wasteful perhaps by some standards—-unless it’s just fun and novelty.

As much as I preach about not needing more than a 16 for a long time, I do like the freedom my rolls have afforded.

Weak subclass and weird feats I think will be cool regardless. A little bump here and there seem to make up for for a number of weaknesses, I think…

 

[Krachek]

If I roll high I would play gladly an efficient class and sub class, why waste a good and rare play? I would play the iconic gifted hero.

 

[ezo]

What do you think is the relative importance of ability scores, optimized race and subclass
In various combinations?

Interesting question...

Race depends on how much you want to role-play, and how much your group gets involved; otherwise it is just mechanics, putting it on par with class and subclass. All of these things are just mechanics and a bit of flavor. Their importance is really purely gamist IMO.

Ability scores give you an "edge", but otherwise that's it. Given the wide range of a d20 roll, and that proficiency is built in via level, the bonus from ability scores really isn't that important. They help, sure, but aren't vital to your PC's success or your enjoyment IME. My friend loves telling new players about a PC he played in 1E with every ability score average, like 9-11 or something. IIRC the PC was a cleric.

How much can high scores elevate a weak subclass/race combo? How important is each relative to eachother?

As I wrote above, they can certainly help. But IMO, how "weak" a subclass/race combo is depends just on what is important to you as a player. I've never played a PC in 5E I felt was weak as long as they were fun to play and I enjoyed the adventure.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Interesting question...

Race depends on how much you want to role-play, and how much your group gets involved; otherwise it is just mechanics, putting it on par with class and subclass. All of these things are just mechanics and a bit of flavor. Their importance is really purely gamist IMO.

Ability scores give you an "edge", but otherwise that's it. Given the wide range of a d20 roll, and that proficiency is built in via level, the bonus from ability scores really isn't that important. They help, sure, but aren't vital to your PC's success or your enjoyment IME. My friend loves telling new players about a PC he played in 1E with every ability score average, like 9-11 or something. IIRC the PC was a cleric.


As I wrote above, they can certainly help. But IMO, how "weak" a subclass/race combo is depends just on what is important to you as a player. I've never played a PC in 5E I felt was weak as long as they were fun to play and I enjoyed the adventure.

I have not either but that said I have not taken feats that were more flavorful that effective in the face on say mediocre ability scores…

I think in my case I may face sunlight sensitivity. And I am not taking a character with a bonus in intelligence…(not that I usually do anyway).

But it fits my vision. This one I can see and hear…

In my case though if I want a an alchemical bomb thrower I am ok. BUT I am so starved for cantrips I cannot believe it! Even one more would have done the trick!

 

[ECMO3]

What do you think is the relative importance of ability scores, optimized race and subclass
In various combinations?

Nothing will save a character that starts with all abilities below 10 and nothing will balance one that starts with all abilities above 16. As long as abilities are all within 1 standard deviation of the median, following is the general rank of importance of the things you mention:

1. Subclass
2. Race
3. Abilities

I will add that you did not ask about class, but class would be the top of this list in importace.

How much can high scores elevate a weak subclass/race combo?

Not much unless you get really, really high scores.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Nothing will save a character that starts with all abilities below 10 and nothing will balance one that starts with all abilities above 16. As long as abilities are all within 1 standard deviation of the median, following is the general rank of importance of the things you mention:

1. Subclass
2. Race
3. Abilities

I will add that you did not ask about class, but class would be the top of this list in importace.


Not much unless you get really, really high scores.

I think this is my assessment, largely but was interested to hear arguments for/against.

In my case it will not run the table. He will still just be an alchemist though with a lot of hit points and a bonus attack stat in str.

In time you can make gauntlets of ogre power so it’s almost like the great rolls bought me a free infusion early…

But no one is goi g to run from a mostly cantrip warrior, I don’t suppose…

 

[Ancalagon]

If I roll high I would play gladly an efficient class and sub class, why waste a good and rare play? I would play the iconic gifted hero.

so you got great stats randomly, meaning you probably have the best stats of the party. Then you are going to compound that difference by building a power-gamer's PC.

People rolling great stats building suboptimal characters is a great way to "even out" the party and remove some of the sting of rolling bad stats and ensure intra-party imbalance. Maybe I'm missing your point, but it seems like what you are proposing would make things worse, not better...

 

[Krachek]

so you got great stats randomly, meaning you probably have the best stats of the party. Then you are going to compound that difference by building a power-gamer's PC.

People rolling great stats building suboptimal characters is a great way to "even out" the party and remove some of the sting of rolling bad stats and ensure intra-party imbalance. Maybe I'm missing your point, but it seems like what you are proposing would make things worse, not better...

The fun of rolling stats is to allow exceptional character.
If the table want to even out characters point buy already do the job.

 

[ECMO3]

I think race is the least important aspect there.

If you were limited to PHB races I would agree, but the best new races like Bugbears, Goblins, Eladrin and Shaddar Kai are worth at least 5 points on point buy in tier 1 and tier 2 as compared to races like the PHB Dragonborn or Human

A Shaddar Kai for example starts the game at level 1 with an ability that is a better version of one of the best 2nd level spells and can use it twice a day. This is on top of what is already an above average race with good racial abilities like Perception proficiency, trance, immunity to sleep, advantage against charm and permanent resistance to necrotic damage.