Hero into Dragon into Archmage rinse repeat

[Balfore]

Ok, I have a player that used this combo.
So many questions.
Can the dragon, change into an archmage and have access to its spells....OR, are the spells considered "class abilities" and therefore not able to be used?

You can see my dilemma... every other round, the dragon can change, and keep replenishing his spells.

That makes for an exploit, and breaks the game.

Is there a ruling (a clear ruling, Crawford speaks in terms that are very cryptic, instead of a yes or no answer). That I can present to my players?

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[jaelis]

It’s not totally clear what abilities you’re talking about here.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

You can use Polymorph or similar to change into a 'Human' or 'Dwarf'. I don't think that you can use it to change into a '10th level human Monk' or 'Dwarven Archmage'.

 

[Sadras]

Can the dragon, change into an archmage and have access to its spells

Nope. In no way is an archmage an example of a new form as referred to in the 4th level spell Polymorph. Even the 9th level spell Shapechange doesn't confer such abilities to the recipient of the spell.

"...You transform into an average example of that creature*, one without any class levels or the Spellcasting trait..."

*Examples of creatures would be goat, pixie, manticore...etc. Not an archmage.

Is there a ruling (a clear ruling, Crawford speaks in terms that are very cryptic, instead of a yes or no answer). That I can present to my players?

The actual spell descriptions (Polymorph and Shapechange) reflect on this. No ruling is required.

 

[FrogReaver]

What's allowing the pc to change into a dragon and what's allowing the dragon to transform?

 

[Zmajdusa]

Ancient metallic Dragons have change shape, which doesn't care about the spell casting trait, only class abilities, and since all creatures in the monster manual are in essence, not creatures advancing in classes, you should be able to use the spellcasting from the archmage monster.

 

[jaelis]

Ancient metallic Dragons have change shape, which doesn't care about the spell casting trait, only class abilities, and since all creatures in the monster manual are in essence, not creatures advancing in classes, you should be able to use the spellcasting from the archmage monster.

The archmage entry says that it is an 18th-level spell caster. I would interpret that as a class ability. If not, what does it mean?

 

[jgsugden]

Forget whether it is legal or not - it is broken. Even if it were a gap in the rules, it should not be allowed as it breaks the game. I applaud PCs for clever use of spells, but I would not allow them to do this silliness as it destroys the integrity of the combat system by giving infinite spells.

For folks trying to figure out what is discussed here, I think it is:

20th Level wizard polymorphs a 20th level PC into an ancient Brass Dragon that uses the Dragon Shape Change ability to become an Archmage with the full contingent of archmage spells. Spells are cast, and then the Dragon becomes an Archmage again and that, in theory, refreshes the spells.

 

[Fanaelialae]

Forget whether it is legal or not - it is broken. Even if it were a gap in the rules, it should not be allowed as it breaks the game. I applaud PCs for clever use of spells, but I would not allow them to do this silliness as it destroys the integrity of the combat system by giving infinite spells.

For folks trying to figure out what is discussed here, I think it is:

20th Level wizard polymorphs a 20th level PC into an ancient Brass Dragon that uses the Dragon Shape Change ability to become an Archmage with the full contingent of archmage spells. Spells are cast, and then the Dragon becomes an Archmage again and that, in theory, refreshes the spells.

Additionally, it's plain silly, unless you're playing a comedy themed campaign.

Still, ultimately just remember: anything the players can do the DM can do better. Discovering and exploiting a broken combo just means that the DM can throw that combo at you; NPCs being more expendable than PCs, mutually assured destruction never goes in the favor of the players.

 

[Oofta]

You can't transform into an archmage; an archmage is an NPC not a creature. The creature is whatever humanoid happens to have levels of wizard. At least that's how I've always ruled it; there's a difference between class and creature.