D&D (2024) 6e, how would you sort the classes/sub-classs?

[MechaTarrasque]

I've always maintained that Barbarian should be a sub-race of Human. This would also give the option for Barbarian Druids and rogues and what-have-you.


Where's the War or Battle domain? Tempest sounds more like it wants to be a Weather Cleric (and wouldn't that fit better under Druid?)

Lanefan

Barbarian as a human subrace would be interesting, since it would be easier to be build racial features for that then for "generic" humans, and if you used a picture of a big European guy (or gal) in furs as the PHB one, it would avoid any unseemly issues (even if it is just as good for planes-dwelling nomads as Viking raiders). Robert E. Howard would approve. Of course, that leaves what to do for city dwellers and townsfolk/farmers (presumably the other two human races), but I think that could be dealt with (city dwellers probably get another language).

 

[Guest 6801328]

Yeah, in general what I would love from 6e would be a dozen Human sub-races, and the elimination of the generic "Variant".

...and then let everybody pick one feat at level 1.

 

[steeldragons]

Hmm. Taking another tack/swing...looking at things -not necessarily as I would want them, but as they might go, given what 5e already has/does...perhaps tying things back into more abstract elements of the classes, like Primary/secondary Abilities and Alignment (perhaps even as "requirements?" GASP!) to try to fill out their stable of potential characters.

Namely, you have the "Big 4" cardinal classes: Warriors, Wizards, Mystics [nee Priests], and Rogues.

In keeping with tradition, these are the classes of: Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, and Dexterity, respectively.

Constitution and Charisma are, and have always been (perceptions or traditions of "drop stats" notwithstanding), the "important for anybody/all characters." So they generate the rest of the "primary class" mix. Str/Con, Str/Cha, Int/Con, Int/Cha, etc...

Subclasses from there, then, incorporate the various themes and flavors common to the class with or without secondary or tertiary ability requirements, alignment restrictions, perhaps even race restrictions and other factors. Make classes that are supposed to be rare in the game world, actually DIFFICULT and rare to find/play!

OH, and what did we learn from 5e?
1. Not everyone needs spells! As I have known and used for a looong time (and do exactly as Lowkey suggests), there are "caster" classes (wizards and mystics) and there are non-caster classes (warriors and rogues).
2. Everybody should be getting a similar -if not same- number of starting subclass archetypes. Not 7 for this guy, and 2 for this one. No. Not doing that again.

Which gives us a complete 6e Players' Handbook class list looking something like...

"Basic" Game Foundation (2 Base + 6 subclasses of casters, 2 Base + 6 subclasses of non-casters)
Cleric (Wis 10): straight up cleric.
- Crusader (Wis 13/Str 10) : more weapons/armor, less spells
- Healer (Wis 13/Int 10): more spells, less weapons/armor
- Avenger (Wis or Str 15/Wis or Str 13/Dex 10): weapons, armor, spells, Roguish tricks/skills.

Fighter (Str 10): straight up fighter.
-Champion (Str 13/Dex 10) : strongman/weapon expert, access subset of fighting styles different than Battlemaster
-Battlemaster (Str 13/Int 10) : the strategic combat expert, access to subset of fighting styles different than Champion
-Hero (Str or Con 15/Str or Con 13/Cha 10) : weapon expert, strategic expert, all fighting styles, Roguish tricks/skills.

Mage (Int. 10): straight up mage["wizard"].
- Illusionist (Int 13/Dex 10) : phantasmal magic, some arcane magic, enchantments, sneaky tricks
- Necromancer (Int 13/Wis 10) : necromantic magic, some arcane magic, healing, undead summoning and control
- Witch (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 13/Cha 10) : phantasmal & necromantic magic, enchantments & healing, "Witch's Craft."

Thief (Dex. 10) : straight up thief["rogue"].
- Assassin (Dex 13/Str 10) : flippy flip tumble jump, stealth, sneaky tricks
- Investigator (Dex 13/Int 10) : deductive reasoning, search and perception bonuses, sneaky tricks
- Swashbuckler (Dex or Str 15/ Dex or Str 13/Cha 10) : flippy flip, search/perception bonuses, sneaky tricks, Fightery styles/skills.

Second "Advanced" tier of Classes (3 Base + 6 subclasses of non-casters, 3 Base + 9 subclasses of casters + 3 subclasses of supernatural powers without spell use)
Barbarian (Str 13/Con 10) : default barbarian. NO SPELLS!
-Berserker Barbarian (Str or Con 13/Str or Con 13/Wis 10) : more raging, less skills/tricks, more damage without raging
-Reaver Barbarian (Str or Con 13/Str or Con 13/Dex 10) : less raging, more skills/tricks, more attacks without raging
-Totem Warrior (Str or Con 15/Str or Con 13/Cha 10) : supernatural nature/"spirit" powers, magical trances.

Bard (Wis 13/Cha 10) : default bard.
-Lore Bard (Wis or Cha 13/Wis or Cha 13/Int 10) : more spells, more knowledge, less combat skills/tricks
-Skald (Wis or Cha 13/Wis or Cha 13/Str 10) : less spells, less knowledge, more combat skills/tricks
-Jester (Wis or Cha 15/Wis or Cha 13/Dex 10) : less spells, less combat ability, more skills/tricks, "Rhymes & Jokes."

Druid (Wis. 13/Con 10) : default druid.
-Land Druid (Wis or Con 13/ Wis or Con 13/Int 10) : more spells, less shapeshifting, summoning/controlling plants & the elements.
-Beast Druid (Wis or Con 13/Wis or Con 13/Str 10) : less spells, more shapeshifting, summoning/controlling animals
-Shaman (Wis or Con 15/Wis or Con 13/Cha 10) : less spells, less shapeshifting, summoning/controlling "spirits" [elemental/fae/shadow/undead], "Spirit Walking."

Knight (Str. 13/Cha 10) ; default knight. NO SPELLS!
-Questing Knight (Str or Cha 13/Str or Cha 13/Con 10) : combat/damage expertise, more individual effects, different Virtues than Cavaliers
-Cavalier[Banneret] (Str or Cha 13/Str or Cha 13/Int 10) : combat/attack expertise, more area effects, different Virtues than Questing Knights
-Paladin (Str or Cha 15/Str or Cha 13/Wis 10): supernatural divine powers, magical auras.

Ranger (Dex. 13/Con 10) : default ranger. NO SPELLS!
-Hunter Ranger (Dex or Con 13/Dex or Con 13/Int 10) : more movement, less armor/weapons, different tricks/skills than Vanguard, increased Preferred Enemies hit bonus
-Vanguard Ranger (Dex or Con 13/Dex or Con 13/Str 10) : less movement, more armor/weapons, different tricks/skills than Hunter, increased Preferred Enemies damage bonus
-Warden (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 13/Wis 10) : supernatural nature powers, magical trances & auras.

Warlock* (Int 13/Con 10) : default warlock.
-Tome Warlock (Int or Con 13/Int or Con 13/Wis 10) : more spells, less weapons/armor, different invocations than Blade warlocks
-Blade Warlock (Int or Con 13/Int or Con 13/Str 10) : less spells, more weapons/armor, different invocations than Tome warlocks
-Pact/Binding Warlock (Int or Con 15/Int or Con 13/Dex 10) : less spells, less weapons/armor, all invocations, summoning/controlling extradimensional minions.

Tertiary "Appendix" tier of "Power Point" Classes (3 Base + 9 subclasses all supernatural powers with or without spell use)
Monk (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 13/Wis 10) : default monk. Power Points: Ki.
-Sun Monk (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 15/Cha 10) : glowy enlightened soul, supernatural radiant magic powers kung-fu warrior.
-Shadow Monk (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 15/Int 10) : ninja ninja ninja, supernatural shadow magic powers ninja
-Dragon Monk (Dex or Con 15/ Dex or Con 15/Str 10) : SKA-DOOSH! supernatural nature/elemental magic powers mystic.

Psychic (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 13/Con 10) : default psychic. Power Points: Psy.
-Telepath (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 15/Wis 10) : talking to and controlling other minds
-Telekinetic/Kineticist (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 15/Dex 10) : moving other stuff with your mind.
-Psychic Warrior [basically a Jedi] (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 15/Str 10): some mind tricks, some moving stuff, psychically energizing your weapons/attacks.

Sorcerer** (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 13/Cha 10) : default sorcerer. Power Points: Sorcery.
-Elementalist^ (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 15/Con 10) : more spells (related to player choice of element), less armor/weapons, different meta-magics than Favored Souls
-Favored Soul^^ (Int of Wis 15/Int or Wis 15/Str 10) : less spells, more armor/weapons, different meta-magics than Elementalists
-Wild Magus (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 15/Dex 10) : less spells, all metamagics, supernatural arcane magic effects, magical mantles

* All Warlocks, contrasting to 5e, still choose a Patron as a primary 1st level thing, and while still dictating certain features, is more of a flavor thing than the importance and defining features of a Warlock's Pact. Default Warlocks are assumed to have paid/given up something (their soul, their youth, their sanity, etc...) slowly eroded/tainting them as they increase in power.
** The "origin" of Sorcerers is completely immaterial and a matter of pure character background fluff and flavor determined by the player and/or DM. And type of Sorcerer could be born with magic for any number of reasons.
^ "Elementalists" have options far beyond the 4 elements. Choose from the following options: air, animals (and/or any subset thereof: just birds, just fish, etc...), earth/stone, fire, force, light/radiance, metal/magnetism, plants/vegetation, shadow, water and/or ice, weather.
^^ "Favored Souls" are reflavored/-fluffed as a catch-all to not simply beings of Celestial connection or magic, but empowered by any being of magical origin: dragons, genies, celestials, fiends, archfey, etc... It's about the combat abilities and types of extra magical damage/effects they can do. So "Favored Souls" could be what we think of now as "Draconic Sorcerers" or "Celestial Favored Souls" or "Fae-Knights" or whatever.

 

[mellored]

Hmm.... Everything as a feat?

*X = proficency bonus. This increases based on your total XP.
*You gain 1 max HP for every 10 total XP.
*Everyone starts with 50 XP.
*Use XP to buy feats.

Basic Attack (5 XP)
You attack with whatever weapon you have on hand. You deal Xd6 damage make a melee attack, or Xd4 damage if you make a ranged attack.

Skill (1 XP)
You gain +1 to a skill.
You can take this multiple times. Increasing the cost by a cumulative 1 XP each time you choose the same skill.

Fighter 1 (30 XP)
You gain a +1 bonus athletics, endurance. Reduce any damage you take from physical attacks by 1.
You gain the following 3 stances. You can choose a stance at the start of your turn, but can only have 1 stance available at a time.
Shield: You deal Xd8 melee damage, and reduce any damage taken by 1.
Brute: You deal Xd12 melee damage.
Ranged: You deal Xd6 damage at a range of 30'. Half that at a range of 60'.
Dervish: Make 2 melee attacks, each dealing Xd6 damage.

Fighter 2 (50 XP, requires fighter)
You gain a +1 bonus athletics, endurance.
Reduce any damage you take from physical attacks by 1.
You can split your damage from your stances between targets.

Defender (40XP, requires fighter)
When using the shield stance, further reduce any damage you take by 1.
You can take this multiple times. The cost increases by 40XP each time.

Archer 1 (20 XP, requires fighter)
Increase the damage dealt by in Ranged stance to Xd8.

Archer 2 (50 XP, requires archer 1)
Increase the damage dealt by in Ranged stance to Xd10.

Archer 3 (100 XP, requires archer 1)
Increase the damage dealt by in Ranged stance to Xd12.

Sniper (20 XP, requires archer 1)
Increase the range of Ranged stance by 10', and the long range by 20'
You can take this multiple times.

Light (5 XP)
You touch an object and it glows with a magical light that illuminates up to a X * 10' radius. If you use this spell again the previous light turns off.
You can take this multiple times, letting you light an additional object each time.

Firebolt (5 XP)
You deal Xd6 fire damage at a range of 30'.

Burning Hands (30 XP, requires firebolt)
You gain +1 to arcana.
Twice perper long rest, you can cast Burning Hands. Dealing Xd6 fire damage in a 15' cone.
You can spend 10 XP to gain another use of this spell.

Fireball (50 XP, requires burning hands)
You gain +1 to arcana.
Once per long rest, you can cast Fireball, dealing Xd6 damage in a 20' sphere within 100'.
You can spend 30 XP to gain another use of this spell.

Meteor Swarm (300 XP, requires fireball)
Once per long rest, you can cast Meteor Swarm, dealing Xd8 damage in 4 different 20' spheres. A creature can only take damage from this once.

Wizard (40 XP, at least 3 differnt spells)
You gain +1 to arcana.
At the end of a long rest, you can give up a use of one of your spells spell in order to gain a use another spell.

Evoker (60 XP, at least 3 differnt damage spells)
When you roll damage for a damage spell, you can reroll 1 die.
You can take this multiple times. Though you must reroll all dice together.

Cure wounds (30 XP)
You gain +1 to Religion
Twice per long rest, you can cast Cure Wounds. Healing a creature you touch for Xd6 damage.
You can spend 10 XP to gain another use of this spell.

Healing Word (20 XP, requires cure wounds)
You gain +1 to Religion
Once per turn, you can cast cure wounds without taking an action. You also increase it's range to 30'.

Arcane Archer 1 (30 XP, requires archer, at least 1 spell)
During a rest, you can imbue your arrows with a spells. To trigger the spell, you must use Ranged Stance with that arrow. Your attack deals half damage, and the spell triggers on the target.

Paladin (50 XP, requires fighter, cure wounds)
You and each creature within 30' of you take 1 less damage.

Oath of Anceint (50 XP, requires paladin)
You and each creature within 30' of you takes 1 less damage from spells.

etc....



Edit: Hmm... Close, but it needs to be organized better. A long list of options is a bit overwhelming.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I've always found the 4e way of having ''power source'' but dont really care for the the ''roles''. For 6e, I'd go with the main 4, and add a subclass or archtype for every ''power source''. Also, ''power source'' doest necessarily means some kind of magic power but more of a theme or flavor, like the ones in Numenera that you can add to your main class to create the concept you want. I'd also do something for the ones who wants to multiclass within the same ''power source'' like removing multiclass pre-requesite.
Ex:
Fighter
Martial: Warrior
Arcane: Eldritch Knight
Divine: Crusader
Psionic: Battlemind (mix between egoist psion and monk)
Draconic: Dragon Knight (Dragoon?) or Dragonslayer
Primal: Wrathbearer (barbarian without the cultural bagage)
Shadow: Assassin

Strider (aka rogue, thief, vagabond, expert)
Martial: Swashbuckler
Arcane: Bard
Divine: Inquisitor (witch hunter? avenger?)
Psionic: Soul knive
Draconic: Hoard Raider
Primal: Ranger
Shadow: Shadow dancer

Mage
Martial: Battlemage
Arcane: Wizard
Divine: Theurge
Pisonic: Mindmage, Psion, Psychic etc
Draconic: Dragon sorcerer
Primal: Druid (green seer? Fey Beguiler?)
Shadow: Illusionist

Mystic (cleric, priest)
Martial: Warpriest (warlord-like)
Arcane: Warlock
Divine: Favored Soul
Psion: Oracle
Draconic: Dragon priest
Primal: Shaman
Shadow: Dread necromancer

 

[Blue]

What do you think of this:

Simplify to a few core mechanical classes (not thematic classes). Levels with ASI adjustment and for subclass features are left in, thought the latter becomes for overlay features (see below). Subcalss features would start at 1st.

Allow 5e style multiclassing. (But remember, you're down to classes like "Tank, Caster, Leader, Skirmisher/Archer, Skill Monkey", so there's not as many classes to overlap.

Characters pick a thematic overlay. These overlays are not limited by class, but rather adjust for them all. They also have overlay features for each of the classes, picked up when you reach that stub.

You then build you character one level at time using these.

So say you want a paladin, which is an overlay.

The 1st feature for Casters might be to use CHR for casting and have access to the Paladin spell list. Later features might give you Divine Smite. 1st level feature for Leader gives you Lay On Hands and maybe some "Lead from the Front" feature. Maybe the 3rd Tank AND the 2nd Leader feature are both Aura of Protection, and if you have both it expands from 10' to 30' radius.

You don't get an overlay feature every class level much like you don't get a subclass feature every level right now - these are probably something like 1st, 3rd, 6th, and so on. The other level, as now, are filled with abilities core to your class.

While I'd be a bit worried about cherry picking, theoretically you should be able to pick more than one overlay to define your character. For example there might be a Lord of the Storm overlay, which could be a good overlay with Caster for a tempest cleric, but might also help flesh out your Paladin of THOR-EXPY!

At that point you just have choice of the overlay features. Say you were a Tank 1 and took the Paladin overlay feature. At Tank 3 when you get another overlay feature, you could take the second Paladin feature, or you could take the first Lord of the Storm feature. Watch out, Retributive Thunderbolts to rebuke those who attack you or your friends.

Or instead of Lord of the Storm, maybe there's an Oath of the Ancients overlay you want. But it has fun things like the 1st Skirmisher feature gives advantage to stealth and ignore difficult terrain in natural settings, and so on - it's not meant just for paladins.

 

[Blue]

BTW, I'm loving this thread. I'm seeing so much non-confrontational brainstorming with metric tons of good ideas. It's just been inspiring and supportive. People aren't cutting down each other's ideas, just running with the ones they like.

Good job folks. And thank you @mellored for starting it.

 

[Lanefan]

Barbarian as a human subrace would be interesting, since it would be easier to be build racial features for that then for "generic" humans, and if you used a picture of a big European guy (or gal) in furs as the PHB one, it would avoid any unseemly issues (even if it is just as good for planes-dwelling nomads as Viking raiders).

That's exactly what we've been doing for ages in our games.

Of course, that leaves what to do for city dwellers and townsfolk/farmers (presumably the other two human races), but I think that could be dealt with (city dwellers probably get another language).

No, just one other human race for these purposes, and it's called "Human". It remains the baseline, with Barbarians gaining some Str or Con but losing some Int or Wis - much like a less-extreme Part Orc.

 

[Lanefan]

Namely, you have the "Big 4" cardinal classes: Warriors, Wizards, Mystics [nee Priests], and Rogues.

Whatever happened to Fighters, Magic-Users, Clerics and Thieves?

Make classes that are supposed to be rare in the game world, actually DIFFICULT and rare to find/play!

I like this, though I suspect I'll be in the minority.

As for your actual list:

Which gives us a complete 6e Players' Handbook class list looking something like...

"Basic" Game Foundation (2 Base + 6 subclasses of casters, 2 Base + 6 subclasses of non-casters)
Cleric (Wis 10): straight up cleric.
- Crusader (Wis 13/Str 10) : more weapons/armor, less spells
- Healer (Wis 13/Int 10): more spells, less weapons/armor
- Avenger (Wis or Str 15/Wis or Str 13/Dex 10): weapons, armor, spells, Roguish tricks/skills.

So, Crusader is a War Cleric (though the name makes me think it's a reskinned Paladin), a Healer is a Life Cleric, but what is an Avenger? Something of a Cleric-Thief cross?

Fighter (Str 10): straight up fighter.
-Champion (Str 13/Dex 10) : strongman/weapon expert, access subset of fighting styles different than Battlemaster
-Battlemaster (Str 13/Int 10) : the strategic combat expert, access to subset of fighting styles different than Champion
-Hero (Str or Con 15/Str or Con 13/Cha 10) : weapon expert, strategic expert, all fighting styles, Roguish tricks/skills.

My worry here is that Hero and Swashbuckler (listed below) would tread on each other's toes.

Mage (Int. 10): straight up mage["wizard"].
- Illusionist (Int 13/Dex 10) : phantasmal magic, some arcane magic, enchantments, sneaky tricks
- Necromancer (Int 13/Wis 10) : necromantic magic, some arcane magic, healing, undead summoning and control
- Witch (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 13/Cha 10) : phantasmal & necromantic magic, enchantments & healing, "Witch's Craft."

Necromancer should be more focused on hurting than healing. (I've never agreed with the classification of healing spells as necromantic). And is your Witch (Shaman?) kind of a Necro-Illusionist cross?

Thief (Dex. 10) : straight up thief["rogue"].
- Assassin (Dex 13/Str 10) : flippy flip tumble jump, stealth, sneaky tricks
- Investigator (Dex 13/Int 10) : deductive reasoning, search and perception bonuses, sneaky tricks
- Swashbuckler (Dex or Str 15/ Dex or Str 13/Cha 10) : flippy flip, search/perception bonuses, sneaky tricks, Fightery styles/skills.

Amusingly, "flippy flip" is the term we always use for what Monks do.

I really like the Investigator idea. Good one!

Still wondering if Swashbuckler and Hero are too close to being the same thing.

Second "Advanced" tier of Classes (3 Base + 6 subclasses of non-casters, 3 Base + 9 subclasses of casters + 3 subclasses of supernatural powers without spell use)
Barbarian (Str 13/Con 10) : default barbarian. NO SPELLS!
-Berserker Barbarian (Str or Con 13/Str or Con 13/Wis 10) : more raging, less skills/tricks, more damage without raging
-Reaver Barbarian (Str or Con 13/Str or Con 13/Dex 10) : less raging, more skills/tricks, more attacks without raging
-Totem Warrior (Str or Con 15/Str or Con 13/Cha 10) : supernatural nature/"spirit" powers, magical trances.

Bard (Wis 13/Cha 10) : default bard.
-Lore Bard (Wis or Cha 13/Wis or Cha 13/Int 10) : more spells, more knowledge, less combat skills/tricks
-Skald (Wis or Cha 13/Wis or Cha 13/Str 10) : less spells, less knowledge, more combat skills/tricks
-Jester (Wis or Cha 15/Wis or Cha 13/Dex 10) : less spells, less combat ability, more skills/tricks, "Rhymes & Jokes."

These look good, though how would you differentiate Jester from a normal Bard being played chaotically?

Druid (Wis. 13/Con 10) : default druid.
-Land Druid (Wis or Con 13/ Wis or Con 13/Int 10) : more spells, less shapeshifting, summoning/controlling plants & the elements.
-Beast Druid (Wis or Con 13/Wis or Con 13/Str 10) : less spells, more shapeshifting, summoning/controlling animals
-Shaman (Wis or Con 15/Wis or Con 13/Cha 10) : less spells, less shapeshifting, summoning/controlling "spirits" [elemental/fae/shadow/undead], "Spirit Walking."

Ah, here's where the "Shaman" name ended up.

What about a Druid type who doesn't summon at all, instead focusing on spells (particularly healing), herbcraft (along with Ranger), and shapeshifting?

Knight (Str. 13/Cha 10) ; default knight. NO SPELLS!
-Questing Knight (Str or Cha 13/Str or Cha 13/Con 10) : combat/damage expertise, more individual effects, different Virtues than Cavaliers
-Cavalier[Banneret] (Str or Cha 13/Str or Cha 13/Int 10) : combat/attack expertise, more area effects, different Virtues than Questing Knights
-Paladin (Str or Cha 15/Str or Cha 13/Wis 10): supernatural divine powers, magical auras.

While I love the Knight as a class I'm not sure there's enough in it to justify 4 classes. One of the Questing Knight or Cavalier could easily become the default Knight, and Paladin could either move up to Cleric, replacing Crusader; or move up to Fighter replacing Hero which gets subsumed into Swashbuckler.

Ranger (Dex. 13/Con 10) : default ranger. NO SPELLS!
-Hunter Ranger (Dex or Con 13/Dex or Con 13/Int 10) : more movement, less armor/weapons, different tricks/skills than Vanguard, increased Preferred Enemies hit bonus
-Vanguard Ranger (Dex or Con 13/Dex or Con 13/Str 10) : less movement, more armor/weapons, different tricks/skills than Hunter, increased Preferred Enemies damage bonus
-Warden (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 13/Wis 10) : supernatural nature powers, magical trances & auras.

To keep them less magic-based, suggest replacing magical trances and auras in the Warden with better tracking and herbcraft.

Warlock* (Int 13/Con 10) : default warlock.
-Tome Warlock (Int or Con 13/Int or Con 13/Wis 10) : more spells, less weapons/armor, different invocations than Blade warlocks
-Blade Warlock (Int or Con 13/Int or Con 13/Str 10) : less spells, more weapons/armor, different invocations than Tome warlocks
-Pact/Binding Warlock (Int or Con 15/Int or Con 13/Dex 10) : less spells, less weapons/armor, all invocations, summoning/controlling extradimensional minions.

Meh - Warlocks add nothing for me.

Tertiary "Appendix" tier of "Power Point" Classes (3 Base + 9 subclasses all supernatural powers with or without spell use)
Monk (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 13/Wis 10) : default monk. Power Points: Ki.
-Sun Monk (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 15/Cha 10) : glowy enlightened soul, supernatural radiant magic powers kung-fu warrior.
-Shadow Monk (Dex or Con 15/Dex or Con 15/Int 10) : ninja ninja ninja, supernatural shadow magic powers ninja
-Dragon Monk (Dex or Con 15/ Dex or Con 15/Str 10) : SKA-DOOSH! supernatural nature/elemental magic powers mystic.

Psychic (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 13/Con 10) : default psychic. Power Points: Psy.
-Telepath (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 15/Wis 10) : talking to and controlling other minds
-Telekinetic/Kineticist (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 15/Dex 10) : moving other stuff with your mind.
-Psychic Warrior [basically a Jedi] (Int or Cha 15/Int or Cha 15/Str 10): some mind tricks, some moving stuff, psychically energizing your weapons/attacks.

Sorcerer** (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 13/Cha 10) : default sorcerer. Power Points: Sorcery.
-Elementalist^ (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 15/Con 10) : more spells (related to player choice of element), less armor/weapons, different meta-magics than Favored Souls
-Favored Soul^^ (Int of Wis 15/Int or Wis 15/Str 10) : less spells, more armor/weapons, different meta-magics than Elementalists
-Wild Magus (Int or Wis 15/Int or Wis 15/Dex 10) : less spells, all metamagics, supernatural arcane magic effects, magical mantles

These are all good, though I'd love to see Wild Magus be listed under a base class rather than tertiary.

* All Warlocks, contrasting to 5e, still choose a Patron as a primary 1st level thing, and while still dictating certain features, is more of a flavor thing than the importance and defining features of a Warlock's Pact. Default Warlocks are assumed to have paid/given up something (their soul, their youth, their sanity, etc...) slowly eroded/tainting them as they increase in power.
** The "origin" of Sorcerers is completely immaterial and a matter of pure character background fluff and flavor determined by the player and/or DM. And type of Sorcerer could be born with magic for any number of reasons.
^ "Elementalists" have options far beyond the 4 elements. Choose from the following options: air, animals (and/or any subset thereof: just birds, just fish, etc...), earth/stone, fire, force, light/radiance, metal/magnetism, plants/vegetation, shadow, water and/or ice, weather.
^^ "Favored Souls" are reflavored/-fluffed as a catch-all to not simply beings of Celestial connection or magic, but empowered by any being of magical origin: dragons, genies, celestials, fiends, archfey, etc... It's about the combat abilities and types of extra magical damage/effects they can do. So "Favored Souls" could be what we think of now as "Draconic Sorcerers" or "Celestial Favored Souls" or "Fae-Knights" or whatever.

Lanefan

 

[Sacrosanct]

BTW, I'm loving this thread. I'm seeing so much non-confrontational brainstorming with metric tons of good ideas. It's just been inspiring and supportive. People are cutting down each other's ideas, just running with the ones they like.

Good job folks. And thank you [MENTION=6801209]mellored[/MENTION] for starting it.

I second this. It's really got my gear turning. As a game designer, such a question poses an excellent exercise

OK, so a few requirements and assumptions (IMO anyway): Whatever revisions we suggest has to be compatible with the larger game (like spells, monsters, leveling, etc) since only classes/subclasses are in scope for this exercise.

So to expand on what I've been doing, I'm really leaning towards something like this:

Classes: The are the core four: cleric, fighter, magic user, and rogue. At odd levels, the classes grant a core feature (plus the initial basics like proficiencies and hit die, etc)

Occupational Package: Kind of like super subclasses. These grant a feature at every even level.

For example:

Fighter:
level 1: Choose a fighting style and second wind (as written)
Level 3: action surge, improved critical
Level 5: extra attack
Level 7: Quick learner (due to affinity to learn tactical patterns and strategy, translate that into granting yourself advantage and proficiency on any one skill check you choose. Must be attempted immediately. Use this a number of times equal to your prof bonus (minimum once) per long rest
Level 9: resilient: once per long rest, turn any failed saving throw or skill check into a success
Level 11: extra attack
Level 13: Indomitable (as PHB), extra fighting style
Level 15: superior critical
Level 17: survivor (as PHB)
Level 19: extra attack

And let's say for an occupational package, you want to be a commander (requiring a prerequisite of having a CHA of 13). So:
Level 2: Tactical knowledge (If you have a minute to prepare for battle knowing what you face before combat starts, you and every ally within 60ft has advantage on their first roll of the encounter), Inspiring word (d6. You have as many as your CHA modifier, which recharges after a short or long rest. Choose 3 of the Commander maneuvers from the list below)
Level 4: ASI or feat
Level 6: Inspiring Word (IW) is now a d8, choose an additional maneuver to learn
Level 8: Battle leadership (If you have not already taken your action, as a reaction, give up your action and choose an ally within 60ft that had just finished his or her turn. That ally can take another action immediately)
Level 10: IW is a d10. Chose an addition maneuver to learn
Level 12: ASI or feat
Level 14: Lasting Leadership (As long as you are not incapacitated, all allies within 60ft of you gain a bonus of +1 to all Saving throws and skill checks)
Level 16: IW is a d12. Learn all of the remaining maneuvers
Level 18: ASI or Feat
Level 20: Battlefield general (Gain an awareness of the battlefield and share a link with all allies of your choosing within 60ft. You gain telepathy with these allies, and your shared awareness results in you and each eligible ally gaining advantage on all Saving Throws and a bonus +2 to AC while maintaining concentration. This lasts for as long as you maintain concentration, or up to 1 hour, and be used once per long rest)

Commander Maneuvers (use a reaction to invoke)
Rally: you or a target within 30ft gains IW in Hit Points
Precision target: choose an ally within 30ft or yourself. The next attack roll by that ally within the next round will be made with a bonus equally your IW roll
Inspired: Choose an ally within 30ft. That ally will add the result of you IW roll to the next skill check he or she makes
Coordinated Strike: choose an ally within 30ft or yourself that just made a successful attack. Add the IW roll to the damage of that attack
Watchout: choose an ally within 30ft that was just attacked. Roll the IW die and add that to the AC of the ally until the start of your next turn
Planned Defense: choose an ally within 30ft or yourself. Add the IW roll result to the next saving throw if taken within the next round
Better Route: Choose an ally within 60ft or yourself. Spend an IW die and add 30ft to the target's movement. The target can immediately move, and avoid any AoO if one were to be prompted
Get UP: choose an ally within 60ft that just fell unconscious. Spend an IW die to immediately bring that PC back to 1 hp.



Note: These are just rough ideas, so don't expect them to be balanced or anything