How much do your trust the advice of others?

Leatherhead

Possibly a Idiot.
I trust it as far as I can throw it.

The important part, to me, is to find the reasoning behind the advice. That's the useful bit.

However,

I hate to think of starry eyed kids in their first or second campaign all lined up with paladins wielding rapiers!

How could you not want a Three Musketeers style campaign?
 

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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
People who say that choosing a d6 weapon instead of a d8 weapon is somehow gimping the party are also ignored.

I vividly remember a thread where I had given an example of a strength based fighter taking a scimitar instead of a longsword as an example of a suboptimal role playing choice that was quite tolerable (vs... I don't know, a fighter that throws sardines?).

It was as if I had committed a horrific blasphemy. *pages* of posts by some posters saying that this was profoundly irrational and that no sane fighter would ever do such a thing...
 

cbwjm

Seb-wejem
I vividly remember a thread where I had given an example of a strength based fighter taking a scimitar instead of a longsword as an example of a suboptimal role playing choice that was quite tolerable (vs... I don't know, a fighter that throws sardines?).

It was as if I had committed a horrific blasphemy. *pages* of posts by some posters saying that this was profoundly irrational and that no sane fighter would ever do such a thing...
I think that might be the thread I'm thinking of when thinking about the whole d6 vs d8 drama. It was definitely a thread on these forums.
 

outsider

First Post
Another answer to the question: I don't take charop guides as gospel. I examine them thoroughly and make my own judgements. Theoretical optimization is completely different than practical optimization.

A couple of 5e examples: if you write a guide dedicated to the assassin, and don't spend ALOT of time talking about how to actually gain surprise, I don't put much stock in your guide. Mathematically maximizing damage is the easy part. Getting everybody in your party to beat the perception of a relevant enemy is the hard part. Yet, it gets glossed over in favor of big numbers.

If your rogue guide suggests all you need to gain advantage every round is an Owl familiar, you are again dealing with theoretical optimization. On a practical level, do any of you actually want your defining class ability able to be turned off by an enemy successfully making an attack vs 11 ac that only has to do -1- point of damage?

Nevermind the people that build for the maximum AC possible. Okay, the monsters just attack somebody else. Wouldn't you rather have dedicated some of those feats/items/whatever into actually hitting/doing damage?

Charop is pretty good at picking out good options on a case by case basis. I agree with the color ratings they give individual feats/items/etc 9 out of 10 times. I don't trust their builds though, on average.
 

pming

Legend
Hiya!

Players Advice: If a newbie player is trying to find/ask what the "best choice or build" is, then their first DM failed miserably at teaching them the basis of the game; to use your imagination to create an interesting persona with which to engage in a world of make believe. If I start talking to a player at my FLGS (not very often, nowadays), and they spout on and on about how they have been playing for "almost ten years now, and DM's hate me because I make the best characters"....RED ALERT!...RED ALERT!...RED ALERT! That is a player who's advice every should ignore except as an example of a 'player gone bad'.

DM's Advice: If a DM is young (early to mid 20's or younger), and has less than a decade of experience playing and DM'ing in several multi-year campaigns using several different game systems and milieu's...then take that advice with a grain of salt. If they are older, with 10 to 20 years experience...but most of that is focused on one key system (say, "D&D"), then again...grain of salt. But if you find a DM in their 30's, 40's or 50's....and they've been DM'ing for 20 years or more, and they've DM'ed multiple systems/games that lasted multiple years each? Yeah...write down what he/she says. In short, the more experience and the more variety, the more wise the advice will likely be. NOTE: Not always! There are always outliers, to be sure.

As for damage of d6 vs d8 as "optimal"; This is one of the things that REALLY impressed me with Hackmaster 4th. The exceptionally cool "penetration damage". In HM4, doing d6 could do more damage than the d8 in the long run (or even in the short run!). If you rolled max on a die, you rolled it again (with a -1). If you kept rolling max on that die, you kept rolling until you didn't roll max. Ex: You roll a d6; you get a 6, 6, 6, 6, 1. Your total would be 6 +5, +5, +5, +0 for a total of 21 damage. With this system, a weapon that did 4d4 was, overall, superior to a weapon that did 2d10 simply because rolling a 4 is two and a half times as likely as rolling a 10; and you get 4 initial chances over 2. My late wife, Yen Lo Wang bless her soul, had a female half-ogre fighter who was strong (and big) enough to use a Giant Sized Battle Ax did 4d4 damage with it (plus str, which I can't remember). She killed herself. She had a LOT of HP's. She Fumbled (roll of 1 on attack roll), then managed to get the dreaded 'hit self'. She started rolling 4d4 and ended up with multiple dice penetrating multiple times. I can't remember what the total was, but if I had to guess it was well into 60 points!

Anyway. Advice is good from experience in time and in variety. Focused experience, I find, is usually a LOT less useful in a RPG context. (and yes, I take the Sage Advice stuff with a grain of salt specifically for these reasons; I trust multiple folks on these boards more, @Saelorn, @Lanefan, @Sacrosanct, to name but a few).

^_^

Paul L. Ming
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
Another answer to the question: I don't take charop guides as gospel.
I do, inasmuch that if a game needs a charop guide I take it as gospel saying it's a game I don't want to play.

pming said:
I trust multiple folks on these boards more, @Saelorn, @Lanefan, @Sacrosanct, to name but a few
Er...thanks, I think. :)

Lan-"who is more foolish - the fool, or the fool that trusts the fool"-efan
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I find Character Optimization advice and mathematical analysis of other aspects of the game to be highly valuable and interesting. While it is something I can understand when I read it, it's not something I have the skills or drive to produce and so I'm very grateful for those who do it. If you're one of those people, thank you!

Whether I use that information to build the Most Perfect Character or not, I still find it useful as a baseline from which to judge various things.

If, however, someone is just doing the analysis to bitch about D&D 5e and does this on the regular? I generally ignore them and will even go so far as to block the worst culprits.
 


77IM

Explorer!!!
Supporter
I'm usually the one giving advice, and I try hard to be conscious of not stepping on other player's toes by swatting down reasonable ideas. In fact, at this point, I mostly point out the two most egregious errors I see people make:

1) Ability scores don't match what they want their character to do. Like, if you have a Strength of 11, don't carry a warhammer and shield and wade into melee. Your attacks are kind of a waste of time. If that's what you want to do all day, maybe get your Strength up to at least a 14? Or, how's your Dex; try a finesse weapon? Got any attack cantrips?

Or similarly, a player wants to be the talky guy but they've dumped Charisma. Oops! Yes, Virginia, some DMs really do call for Charisma checks.

2) Not Picking Any Useful Spells. Like, I get it, there are lots of "fun" spells so maybe you don't want to spend ALL your spell picks on the most devastating damage or crazy buff-combos. But, honestly, try to get at least an attack cantrip and some sort of nuclear option. You're not going to identify and rope trick enemies to death.​

I feel like some players, especially the ones that pick lousy spell lists, deliberately create crappy characters as a sort of passive-aggressive challenge to the game rules. "I should be allowed to play a cloistered pacifist! It makes me better than those violent min-maxers! It's role-playing!"

Uhhh, yeah, that sounds pretty cool, until it's your turn in combat and you have nothing useful to do because your only relevant spell is vicious mockery. Great little spell; gets kinda boring spamming it session after session.
 


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