D&D 4E A gathering of Martial Controllers - what do you think

[Garthanos]

Also, while a caltrop just sits there the danger presented by similar-level enemies pressing you in combat could make them harder to avoid. Hmm... a level-neutral mechanic might simply be that you can't shift over them. Or they could attack using the bonus of the adjacent enemy you're trying to avoid an OA from...

What happens if they move through them shifting without an adjacent enemy... no damage the shifting represents slowed movement to avoid hurting themselves? but if they do have an adjacent enemy they take damage based on the level/threat of the adjacent enemy.

I like that instead of slowed they have to shift and your shift can only do one or another... evade the attack of adjacent enemy or evade the damage of the caltrops (based on the level of that adjacent enemy which is distracting your attention).

Ofcourse it means you cannot do a normal move through the affected area... that is pretty extreme. What if they move through them without seeing them is it then the deception skill that placed them which causes the damage? Or just a burst of damage based on that then the shift limit.

 

[Garthanos]

To give this context



There are multi-class feats which change the function of weapons considerably perhaps this would be a way to manage the item currently called Gear.

It might allow you to over-ride an attack that doesnt let you slide/move enemies into difficult terrain because they are hidden/instantaneously created difficult terrain. It might add damage if they are forced in this way.

It might allow you to spread them over a wider area and remain useful due to skilled placement.

The feat should allow more distant placement not just adjacent to you.

It might reduce one down to shifting as previously mentioned not slowed if you take damage from
being moved into it.

Brain storming a little bit.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Are there wizard control enhancing feats? ... there must be, duh, need to examine that class more now that I am getting back to working on the controller warlord.

Not a lot that I recall, just like there isn't a clear controller feature, like surge-triggering is for leaders or marking is for defenders, rather support for the controller role was concentrated in the OP spells of the wizard, again, giving me the impression the whole role existed merely to grandfather in wizards' excessive power.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

LOL well that is a bit over the top... I mean I haven't exactly been following his exploits much recently. I had the impression he was never great as a big picture guy and had nostalgia going on (which at some level I suspect of us all or we would be playing an entirely different game) without always understanding the problems that were in what he was nostalgic over.

I mean, here's the thing, I may not be some sort of published game designer, but I've written a LOT of games, actually. From the time I was 12 I wrote games, RPGs, wargames, table top games, etc. I've made some decent games that bunches of people played, usually with a few other people working on the better ones. I feel like I have SOME idea what the process and constraints are to building games and getting people to play them. I'm sure there's plenty I don't know about what goes on in Mike Mearls' office and career and WotC, nor could I do his job. Still, some of the stuff the guy says is just so utterly weird and doesn't ring true to me. Every decision he makes goes in a direction that seems to make me cringe. 5e seems completely antithetical to what feels right in evolving a version of D&D to me, and having played 1e and 2e for 20+ years I just can't even recognize 1e in what he's describing.

Now, if he'd said it about OD&D, I would have found it to be a much more credible statement in many respects. Not that the game is some wondergame by modern standards, but it did do certain things, and had certain qualities, that are not easy to produce in a game.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Insight to place it where victims are most likely to step. Stealth to cameoflage it...
yes.

Also, while a caltrop just sits there the danger presented by similar-level enemies pressing you in combat could make them harder to avoid. Hmm... a level-neutral mechanic might simply be that you can't shift over them. Or they could attack using the bonus of the adjacent enemy you're trying to avoid an OA from...

These are the best caltrop ideas I've heard to date.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Not a lot that I recall, just like there isn't a clear controller feature, like surge-triggering is for leaders or marking is for defenders, rather support for the controller role was concentrated in the OP spells of the wizard, again, giving me the impression the whole role existed merely to grandfather in wizards' excessive power.

Well, there was the feat that increased the size of a zone, the one that let you exclude an alley, and the one that made the damage higher.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Well, there was the feat that increased the size of a zone, the one that let you exclude an alley, and the one that made the damage higher.

Ok, increasing the size, I'll grant. Damage, meh, it's for strikers. ;p. Excluding allies, like targeting enemies makes playing - and facing - a controller simpler, which I feel like undermines the role a bit.

And, of course, they're feats, not class features...

...sigh, you'd think I hate controllers or at least wizards, but, no, I like playing them, when there's some challenge and interest to it....

 

[Garthanos]

I mean, here's the thing, I may not be some sort of published game designer, but I've written a LOT of games, actually. From the time I was 12 I wrote games, RPGs, wargames, table top games, etc. I've made some decent games that bunches of people played, usually with a few other people working on the better ones. I feel like I have SOME idea what the process and constraints are to building games and getting people to play them. I'm sure there's plenty I don't know about what goes on in Mike Mearls' office and career and WotC, nor could I do his job. Still, some of the stuff the guy says is just so utterly weird and doesn't ring true to me. Every decision he makes goes in a direction that seems to make me cringe. 5e seems completely antithetical to what feels right in evolving a version of D&D to me, and having played 1e and 2e for 20+ years I just can't even recognize 1e in what he's describing.

Now, if he'd said it about OD&D, I would have found it to be a much more credible statement in many respects. Not that the game is some wondergame by modern standards, but it did do certain things, and had certain qualities, that are not easy to produce in a game.

I do not know what he said and you did not clarify LOL

 

[Garthanos]

These are the best caltrop ideas I've heard to date.

They seem a starting point .. what happens if someone aware of them just moves through the zone without shifting?

 

[Garthanos]

Well, there was the feat that increased the size of a zone, the one that let you exclude an alley, and the one that made the damage higher.

I was going to mention the area increaser