Generation Ships--- Can we build one now?

[Deset Gled]

We have reasonably good prototyping tech that could be adapted to produce replacement parts for many items.

I think this is a misconception, and probably the one that is most likely to make a generation ship impossible for some time. So many things have no simple method of manufacturing at a small scale. Computer chips, optics, any chemical process that's not 100% reversible (which, from an engineering standpoint, is all of them). Also, you have to keep in mind that many prototyping techniques simply aren't as good as traditional methods; you can 3D print a new bushing or o-ring, but if that replacement isn't the right kind of PTFE or Viton is it really worth it? And what happens when the prototyping machine breaks?

Unfortunately, you always need spare parts and materials. Determining the MTBF for components and how to deal with spare parts is a huge problem for the Mars missions right now. The more complex a system is, the bigger the spare parts list become. This is so much of an issue, they are actually considering giving up on an oxygen generating system. The mass of spare parts needed for the air system is more mass than simply taking enough air with you.

For any time in the near future, the best way to develop a Generation Ship is to actually send a Generation Fleet, and have them cannibalize themselves (technologically, and probably literally, too) until there's only one left.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Shasarak]

We might even make that a reality if humanity wasn't so petty and hateful over things that are ultimately unimportant..

Well we can not achieve anything if we just sit around singing Kumbaya to each other either.

It takes a bit of honey and vinegar to get things done.

 

[BornChaoticNeutral]

Well we can not achieve anything if we just sit around singing Kumbaya to each other either.

It takes a bit of honey and vinegar to get things done.

No argument there.. . but there's a difference between what you're talking about and what I'm talking about. I'm talking about racism, homophobia, spirituality etc.. Things that ultimately don't matter except to the person in question. Humans fight over religion, we fight over skin color, who a person chooses to love. Until that problem is solved we would never be able to find the cohesiveness to work together on a project of that scope... Never mind being able to spend generations living in a contained environment. As a species, we have a lot of work to do to even be able to consider it.. Do I think its a bad thing?? Hell no. Do I think its possible? Maybe.

 

[Ryujin]

I think this is a misconception, and probably the one that is most likely to make a generation ship impossible for some time. So many things have no simple method of manufacturing at a small scale. Computer chips, optics, any chemical process that's not 100% reversible (which, from an engineering standpoint, is all of them). Also, you have to keep in mind that many prototyping techniques simply aren't as good as traditional methods; you can 3D print a new bushing or o-ring, but if that replacement isn't the right kind of PTFE or Viton is it really worth it? And what happens when the prototyping machine breaks?

Unfortunately, you always need spare parts and materials. Determining the MTBF for components and how to deal with spare parts is a huge problem for the Mars missions right now. The more complex a system is, the bigger the spare parts list become. This is so much of an issue, they are actually considering giving up on an oxygen generating system. The mass of spare parts needed for the air system is more mass than simply taking enough air with you.

For any time in the near future, the best way to develop a Generation Ship is to actually send a Generation Fleet, and have them cannibalize themselves (technologically, and probably literally, too) until there's only one left.

I did qualify my statement with the word "many." Obviously things like drive components wouldn't be the sort of thing that you could turn out with an FDM style printer. Many could be handled with other technology like SLS for metals, or SLA with finer precision. Refinements on fine laser sintering could be used for larger power semiconductors. We're talking about a city-sized ship, so clean rooms and semiconductor production facilities aren't out of the question. A Mars mission isn't throwing a city into space.

 

[Shasarak]

No argument there.. . but there's a difference between what you're talking about and what I'm talking about. I'm talking about racism, homophobia, spirituality etc.. Things that ultimately don't matter except to the person in question. Humans fight over religion, we fight over skin color, who a person chooses to love. Until that problem is solved we would never be able to find the cohesiveness to work together on a project of that scope... Never mind being able to spend generations living in a contained environment. As a species, we have a lot of work to do to even be able to consider it.. Do I think its a bad thing?? Hell no. Do I think its possible? Maybe.

Except that we always have to balance the individuals rights to the individuals responsibilities to the group. This is not an easy question and we can not just tell people to get over it or get better.

And if you are jamming people into a generation ship then do you really want proven problematic differences between them? For a start you would want to have a good genetic mix, you would want to exclude anyone with genetic, mental or health weaknesses. You would want to make sure that everyone could speak a common language. Maybe the Military would be the best way to run it to get some discipline baked in from the start.

 

[Samloyal23]

Isn't the whole point of a generation ship to just go out and explore but not necessarily having a destination?

That is part of it. Exploration for the sake of exploration. I can see a generation ship setting up several colonies in different star systems when it stops at a planet to refuel and stock up on supplies before finally needing to stop exploring and settle down to stay.

 

[Eltab]

High-tech computers may not be coming along for the trip, in all the applications we use them now. OTOH, a few tons of iron ore in the cargo hold means a blacksmith and an architect can create new low-tech parts to cover minimum necessary functionality when the high-tech parts break down and cannot be repaired / replaced. The inside of the generation ship may look more like Titanic than like Kirk's TV Enterprise by the time it arrives at its destination.

 

[Eltab]

Until that problem is solved we would never be able to find the cohesiveness to work together on a project of that scope... Never mind being able to spend generations living in a contained environment.

Humans are going to bring human nature along with them for the trip. Both 'fully human' and 'merely human'.

Maybe the Age of Sail offers a place to start, to work out how a bunch of people in a confined space are going to get along with each other.

 

[Legatus Legionis]

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