D&D (2024) The rapier problem

[CleverNickName]

I love swashbuckling characters, I do. But there should not be one best weapon in the game for a huge swath of characters. But right now, there is: the rapier.
(snip)
What do you think? Is this a problem in your game? Have you attempted to fix it in some fashion?

I changed the damage from 1d8 to 1d6. It's only a difference of 1 point, on average, but you would think they are all suddenly radioactive judging by how fiercely the players avoid it. "Only one dee six damage?! HISSSSSS!!!"

Then, just for the swashbucklers in my game, I added in a new weapon called the Cutlass. It's mechanically identical to a shortsword, but I don't think anyone has noticed yet. They're still too busy grumbling about the rapier, and trying to decide how many pistols they can afford.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

there are moments in fencing when blades "bind" and you are close to your opponent, then a broken bottle across the neck or face is better than a punch, and dagger would be even better as you can block with dagger, you cannot with a hand: I guess you can block once with a hand, but it is not recommended.

You can block with a hand. It's just difficult because you have to avoid all the sharp/pointy bits. It's a timing/angle thing. Should be used as a last resort, though, you're right about that.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

You can block with a hand. It's just difficult because you have to avoid all the sharp/pointy bits. It's a timing/angle thing. Should be used as a last resort, though, you're right about that.

The assumption when blocking with hands is that you're wearing gloves, which many nobles at the time did in fact wear. And that the hands are sort of cupped so less surface area touches the sharp part.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Sample of a table that we are trying for melee weapons.
Not perfect, but it gives weight to every weapon trait.
Every trait reduces weapon base damage.
Boost to STR based weapons.

Weapon traits	Simple weapon damage	example	Martial weapon damage	example
1Handed, Versatile	d8(d10)	mace	d10(d12)	longsword
1Handed, Thrown	d6	javelin	d8	trident
1Handed, finesse	d6	long knife	d8	rapier
1Handed, light	d6	club	d8	arming sword
1Handed, reach, Versatile	d6 (d8)	spear	d8(d10)	partisan
1Handed, finesse, light	d4	dagger	d6	shorsword
1Handed, finesse, reach	d4	whip	d6	dagger whip
1Handed, finesse, thrown	d4	dart	d6	throwing hammer
1Handed, light, thrown	d4	pillum	d6	throwing axe
1Handed, finesse, light, thrown	d3	throwing knife	d4	chakram
2Handed, heavy	2d6	warmace	2d8	greatsword
2Handed	d12	greatclub	2d6	claymore
2Handed, heavy, reach	d12	pike	2d6	pole-ax
2Handed, reach	d10	longspear	d12	glaive
2Handed, finesse	d10	bo staff	d12	elven courtblade
2Handed, finesse, reach	d8	elven spear	d10	spiked chain

I like this.

and to add to it, if you don't even make actual weapons, people can just customize the ones they want and then skin them as whatever they want.

Grim Tales, a d20 modern had a neat way to customize weapons. These are d20 modern rules. You'd have to change them up - since X3 crits don't exist in 5e.

Spoiler: Example

Simple Melee Weapons:

Spoiler: Example

Base Damage: d6
Base Threat Range: 20
Multiplier: X3
Size: Medium

Decrease the multiplier to X2 to improve threat to 19-20
Decrease multiplier to X2 to improve damage die 1 step
Decrease multiplier to X2 to allow weapon to be thrown. (slashing/bludgeoning are 10 foot range, piercing 20 feet)
Increase size to Large (2handed) to improve dmage die by 1 max d8
Decrease Damage Die to d4 to make it small

Martial weapons start at d8. making them large increases damage dice by two, Max d12

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

PS, boosting crit range for certain weapons to 19-20 would give low dice weapons a bit more love.

 

[Gorck]

An easier fix than my first one/post is create a new scimitar for your character with a d8. Change the name a bit, say your far-flung relative has been making this type of sword for decades, and no one can complain because the rapier still does d8, and the normal scimitar still does d6. Who can tell you that your family sword-making secret is wrong?

Falchion?

there are moments in fencing when blades "bind" and you are close to your opponent, then a broken bottle across the neck or face is better than a punch, and dagger would be even better as you can block with dagger, you cannot with a hand: I guess you can block once with a hand, but it is not recommended.

This is one part of 2-weapon fighting in 5e that I dislike. You can't do the traditional Spanish style of Rapier/Longsword & Dagger because both weapons need to have the Light property.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

this is all true, but what damage then for a 1Handed weapon without light and finesse property like a longsword?

Maybe bump it up to 1d10(versatile 1d12), and then 2d8 for the greatweapons? If the Great Weapon master feat is nerfed in 1D&D (as it should be) then two handed weapons deserve a significant damage boost to make up for not being able to use a shield.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

This is one part of 2-weapon fighting in 5e that I dislike. You can't do the traditional Spanish style of Rapier/Longsword & Dagger because both weapons need to have the Light property.

My son, who clearly has seen a lot of Assassin's Creed videos, insists on having his swashbuckler fight with two rapiers. Hardly optimal, but he did almost everything else he could to optimize, so he's still a damage beast.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Nothing, really. I was going off the premise that you had already written off houseruling (which is pretty easy - a rapier is clearly a d4 weapon).

I haven't written off house ruling -- I use quite a bit of them in my home games -- but this is the 1D&D forum. WotC has a chance to do modest tweaks to weapons systems in 1D&D. (Smaller than 3.5, which had disruptive changes on that front.)

 

[Azzy]

It's a shame that 5e didn't include crit ranges like 3e did. That would have been another way way to make weapons meaningfully different from each other. But then I have a few complaints about what 5e did to the weapon and and armor tables.