D&D (2024) The new spell creation rules

[Stalker0]

A wizard with wish can cast Modify Spell without component cost as an 8th level spell. Meaning that the wizard can go through every spell they have and do modifications for only a meer 50 GP per spell level cost.

 

[Parmandur]

A wizard with wish can cast Modify Spell without component cost as an 8th level spell. Meaning that the wizard can go through every spell they have and do modifications for only a meer 50 GP per spell level cost.

You can only have one Modified Spell at a time. Yo would jabe to do Create.Spell before a Long Rest to make it permanent, which is probavly on purpose to foil shenanigans.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Other than a little weirdness about whether Scribe Spell is required, and what happens when you need to create a new spellbook when you don't have these memorised, I think that this is an interesting system that fits well into the Wizard concept.

However - it also steals a large part of the Sorceror's fun, and is a significant power upgrade to a class that was already significantly more powerful than others.

 

[Stalker0]

You can only have one Modified Spell at a time. Yo would jabe to do Create.Spell before a Long Rest to make it permanent, which is probavly on purpose to foil shenanigans.

sure, so every day you can add a modified spell to your arsenal for pretty cheap. A high level wizard therefore, only needs a small amount of gold (relatively to the 1000s and 1000s they have racked up at this point), and a few weeks of downtime, to have a completely modified spellbook.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Other than a little weirdness about whether Scribe Spell is required, and what happens when you need to create a new spellbook when you don't have these memorised, I think that this is an interesting system that fits well into the Wizard concept.

However - it also steals a large part of the Sorceror's fun, and is a significant power upgrade to a class that was already significantly more powerful than others.

It does steal some from the Sorcerer, but Sorcerer just stole the biggest thing that made 5e Wizard better than the 5e Sorcerer: The two One D&D classes share the same spell list. Additionally, Sorcerer gets the same number of spells prepared. Yes, Wizard does still get a bit more flexibility with spellbook, but at some point you run into diminishing returns and spellbook are a money sink.

Wizard does need something in return for that lost uniqueness, or else Sorcerer is literally Wizard plus metamagic.

 

[tetrasodium]

It does steal some from the Sorcerer, but Sorcerer just stole the biggest thing that made 5e Wizard better than the 5e Sorcerer: The two One D&D classes share the same spell list. Additionally, Sorcerer gets the same number of spells prepared. Yes, Wizard does still get a bit more flexibility with spellbook, but at some point you run into diminishing returns and spellbook are a money sink.

Wizard does need something in return for that lost uniqueness, or else Sorcerer is literally Wizard plus metamagic.

This is why I think that modify>create>scribe spell being off in the costs for the benefits is more important than any flavor that chain might be "stealing" from sorcerer..
At wizard seven, modify spell can

• Change energy type of a spell: So can transmuted spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Remove verbal somatic or material components: So can subtle spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Remove concentration: Oddly Extended Spell can double duration & provide advantage on the con save for concentration... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Give a spell several feet of table space: So can distant spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Make a spell ignore your allies: So can careful spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.

If it was just the costs being over the top for a unique but undertuned benefit it might be one thing, but that's not the case... When it's the costs over the top for the benefit when those benefits are just copying a feature the sorcerer got five levels earlier in early tier1 of play while the sorcerer is now a prepared spells caster from the entire arcane spell list there is a problem in too many parts of the whole to avoid the need for significant rework.

 

[Bacon Bits]

This is why I think that modify>create>scribe spell being off in the costs for the benefits is more important than any flavor that chain might be "stealing" from sorcerer..
At wizard seven, modify spell can

• Change energy type of a spell: So can transmuted spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Remove verbal somatic or material components: So can subtle spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Remove concentration: Oddly Extended Spell can double duration & provide advantage on the con save for concentration... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Give a spell several feet of table space: So can distant spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.
• Make a spell ignore your allies: So can careful spell... for the last five sorcerer levels since they were level two.

If it was just the costs being over the top for a unique but undertuned benefit it might be one thing, but that's not the case... When it's the costs over the top for the benefit when those benefits are just copying a feature the sorcerer got five levels earlier in early tier1 of play while the sorcerer is now a prepared spells caster from the entire arcane spell list there is a problem in too many parts of the whole to avoid the need for significant rework.

Yeah, Sorcerers can do it from level 2. But they can only do a subset of whats available. You only get three metamagic options at level 2. If you pick Subtle and Careful and Transmuted, well, you don't get Distant or Heightened. You do get most everything the Wizard can do with Modify, but not all at once. And they have to pay every time they cast a spell that way. They're similar effects but quite different.

 

[Bacon Bits]

A wizard with wish can cast Modify Spell without component cost as an 8th level spell. Meaning that the wizard can go through every spell they have and do modifications for only a meer 50 GP per spell level cost.

"I can break the game with Wish," doesn't seem like a reasonable complaint about the power level of Modify Spell or Craft Spell. In this example, Wish is broken. Which we knew already. It's intentionally busted.

 

[Parmandur]

sure, so every day you can add a modified spell to your arsenal for pretty cheap. A high level wizard therefore, only needs a small amount of gold (relatively to the 1000s and 1000s they have racked up at this point), and a few weeks of downtime, to have a completely modified spellbook.

You lose the modified Spell when you rest, unless you expend a pricey Arcane Focus by casting create spell. Which requires DM buy in.

 

[tetrasodium]

Yeah, Sorcerers can do it from level 2. But they can only do a subset of whats available. You only get three metamagic options at level 2. If you pick Subtle and Careful and Transmuted, well, you don't get Distant or Heightened. You do get most everything the Wizard can do with Modify, but not all at once. And they have to pay every time they cast a spell that way. They're similar effects but quite different.

I agree 100% but it's still pretty much level 2 power at level 7 opportunity cost with level 7resource costs. The hypothetical & extreme edge cases where the situation calls for a subtle careful distant transmuted spell are such edge cases that the wizard almost certainly won't have a spell linking them to one specific spell either simply due to costs & the need for level 5/6/7/8th level spell to modify something so much when the core spell list is identical.

edit: in aggregate it results in feeling more like "ok we ran out of time on this thing & need to put out something." than a thing that conveys an attempt at thoughtful class identity