D&D (2024) The Cleric should be retired

[Mirrorrorrim]

Pretty much the only thing the Cleric needs to fill the White Mage Archetype is a class feature that encourages them not to wear armor.

E.g.

Armor of Faith
When you aren't wearing armor or using a shield, your AC is equal to 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Wisdom modifier.

If you choose the spellcaster centric options instead of Warpriest, that gives you a focus on casting in return for sucking at weapons.

To be honest, I don't hate the idea of an Armor of Faith ability as a Divine Order option at level 1. It would fulfill the narrative of many fantasies ("I am protected by the Will of my Goddess!") But I'm not sure about how to portray it compared to the current Protector/Thaumaturge dichotomy.

 

[James Gasik]

I think we're stuck with the armored battle priest for the foreseeable future. For a largely cloth-wearing priest class to exist, you'd need more spells that can be used at range. A large percentage of the Cleric spell list is very short range spells, because they were created for the Cleric to use.

I wouldn't mind "laser priests", but I recall that the last time we had something like that, it wasn't terribly popular.

 

[Mephista]

4e laser cleric wasn't popular? Or are you talking about the 5e's knowledge/light/etc clerics?

 

[James Gasik]

4e laser cleric wasn't popular? Or are you talking about the 5e's knowledge/light/etc clerics?

I mean (looks around) I sure don't see laser priests anywhere at the moment.

 

[Mephista]

On a whim, I looked up Final Fantasy white mages.
FF1 white mage used hammers.
FF2 didn't have jobs.
FF3's white mage used "staffs" but check out the concept art.
FF4's white mage, Rosa, was an archer - a niche but still used cleric weapon option in D&D.
FF5's white mage is like FF3's - used "staves" but included an option called "Mace of Zeus." Mixing maces and staves again.
Characters in FF6, FF7, FF8 could learn all magics, depending on materia / junctions.
FF9 has Garnet/Dagger and Eiko, who mix Summoning and White magic. Eiko is the more proficent of the two in white magic, and both equip Rackets. Yes, like the sport rackets. They can also use either rod and flute, respectively. Weird.
FF10's Yuna only staff. The spin off white mage only used staves too.
FF11's white mage can use Club skills, which includes maces.
FF12 white mage board was staff and daggers.
FF13 and sequals have a weird magic system, never played it, don't get it.
FF14 is actual staff only. Or wand and shield. Dedicated healer in the tank/dps/healer mmo trinity.
FF15, FF16 had no white mages.
Tactics could only use Staff, but includes "Zeus Mace"
Tactics Advance and A2 could only use staves and were unable to use Mace category.
A few other spin offs, like Dimensions, can use maces. Not going through all of them though.

There's a lot more references to white mages using maces than expected, to be honest.

 

[James Gasik]

On a whim, I looked up Final Fantasy white mages.
FF1 white mage used hammers.
FF2 didn't have jobs.
FF3's white mage used "staffs" but check out the concept art.
FF4's white mage, Rosa, was an archer - a niche but still used cleric weapon option in D&D.
FF5's white mage is like FF3's - used "staves" but included an option called "Mace of Zeus." Mixing maces and staves again.
Characters in FF6, FF7, FF8 could learn all magics, depending on materia / junctions.
FF9 has Garnet/Dagger and Eiko, who mix Summoning and White magic. Eiko is the more proficent of the two in white magic, and both equip Rackets. Yes, like the sport rackets. They can also use either rod and flute, respectively. Weird.
FF10's Yuna only staff. The spin off white mage only used staves too.
FF11's white mage can use Club skills, which includes maces.
FF12 white mage board was staff and daggers.
FF13 and sequals have a weird magic system, never played it, don't get it.
FF14 is actual staff only. Or wand and shield. Dedicated healer in the tank/dps/healer mmo trinity.
FF15, FF16 had no white mages.
Tactics could only use Staff, but includes "Zeus Mace"
Tactics Advance and A2 could only use staves and were unable to use Mace category.
A few other spin offs, like Dimensions, can use maces. Not going through all of them though.

There's a lot more references to white mages using maces than expected, to be honest.

To be fair, D&D was the inspiration for Final Fantasy in the first place. I mean, the first game uses Vancian-esque spell slots! Now why White Mages can't wear armor is anyone's guess- it might be a cultural thing, but I'm not expert, despite years of watching anime, lol.

 

[Mephista]

I mean (looks around) I sure don't see laser priests anywhere at the moment.

I mean, "laser cleric" was just a nickname for the Devoted Cleric option in 4e. Just because no one is using that nickname in 5e doesn't mean the heart of the concept (radiance damage blaster) isn't around. Light domain fills that niche nicely, for instance, on top of getting a bunch of fire spells and light-based tricks to go with the subclass.

 

[Mephista]

To be fair, D&D was the inspiration for Final Fantasy in the first place. I mean, the first game uses Vancian-esque spell slots! Now why White Mages can't wear armor is anyone's guess- it might be a cultural thing, but I'm not expert, despite years of watching anime, lol.

Yep, that's me saying exactly that, first page, first responce. Just thought I'd see how far the mace influence went. Was mostly a curiosity thing.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Of course a divine-spell caster without armour class could be possible, but most of players aren't enoughly interested. 3rd Ed had got the archivist and the healer. Players aren't going to reject armors if these can be wore with divine magic.

Other point is a seriou risk, any players wouldn't wellcome their piaous and patriotic cleric with the emblem "Making Avalon Great Again" to be replaced with the Bohemian bard. Couldn't you guess the potential controversy?

 

[James Gasik]

I mean, "laser cleric" was just a nickname for the Devoted Cleric option in 4e. Just because no one is using that nickname in 5e doesn't mean the heart of the concept (radiance damage blaster) isn't around. Light domain fills that niche nicely, for instance, on top of getting a bunch of fire spells and light-based tricks to go with the subclass.

Sure, but one of the things that supported the ranged cleric in 4e was more ranged options, and your big healing spell being ranged, where now your ranged heal is a band-aid.

But I don't want to get into another discussion about combat healing, lol.