D&D (2024) Playtest 8 Spell Discussion

[Maxperson]

But the "Latin" (for example) counts as a SHARED language. The magical Verbal component is precisely an unshared language.

No. It. Doesn't. It could have been four different languages without deviating one bit. In fact, it WAS 4 different languages that merely sounded latinish. I don't speak latin and didn't look anything up.

These spellcasters can each have a unique Verbal component that shares NOTHING in common with each other, except for being "verbal".

I've already shown this to be false with my four different languages that only sounded sort of latinish. Plus that statement calls the verbal RAW wrong.

Again, YOU have to account for both sections like I have, and not just your preferred section.

There is no "Latin" term or word element "SOM", for example. There might be nothing in common between two casters.

Cool. I wasn't using latin. I was using mystic which has that sound, so any caster that wants to use that sound has to either have it in his language or use a word that isn't in his language.

This is why they cannot read each others spellbooks.

No. Only my way accounts for that AND the verbal section. You need to go back to the drawing board and account for both. Or just home brew it to be how you like it. What you are saying isn't unreasonable. It's just not RAW because it ignores the verbal component RAW.

 

[Yaarel]

No. It. Doesn't. It could have been four different languages without deviating one bit. In fact, it WAS 4 different languages that merely sounded latinish. I don't speak latin and didn't look anything up.

There are an infinite number of languages. Each caster has ones own unique magical language that only oneself can understand.

There is no shared language, whether one shared common language, or four shared languages, or ten shared languages.

There is no "Latin", nor "French", nor "Swahili", nor "Hindi", nor "Algonquin", ... nor "Drow".

There is no shared magical language that any casters can communicate by.

Casters cannot understand each others magical languages.

 

[Yaarel]

The magical languages are called "@Maxperson" and "@Yaarel".

 

[Maxperson]

There are an infinite number of languages. Each caster has ones own unique magical language that only oneself can understand.

There is no shared language, whether one shared common language, or four shared languages, or ten shared languages.

There is no "Latin", nor "French", nor "Swahili", nor "Hindi", nor "Algonquin", ... nor "Drow".

There is no shared magical language that any casters can communicate by.

Casters cannot understand each others magical languages.

None of that matters. Magic is not normal language as RAW demonstrates. You cannot ignore RAW in order to treat it like a real language. The magical tones are specific and must be incorporated into the verbal component. If the sounds are ra and el and oy, you don't have to say raeloy, you can spread those three sounds out over multiple words and still within RAW. Stick them in 3 of the 8 words you say for the spell.

 

[Yaarel]

None of that matters. Magic is not normal language as RAW demonstrates. You cannot ignore RAW in order to treat it like a real language. The magical tones are specific and must be incorporated into the verbal component.

The magical "tones" might be specific, but their characteristics are unique to each individual. The "tones" can be humming, the word "sleep", or shushing, depending on the individual casters.

If the sounds are ra and el and oy, you don't have to say raeloy, you can spread those three sounds out over multiple words and still within RAW. Stick them in 3 of the 8 words you say for the spell.

I suppose you are unfamiliar with linguistics? In your example, the "sounds" "ra", "el", and "oy", would be word elements of a shared language.

There is no shared language.

One says "mmmm", an other says "sleep", and an other says "shhhh".

There is no language with "ra" that they all speak in common.

The magical language of each caster is unique and ultimately incomprehensible.

 

[Maxperson]

The magical "tones" might be specific, but their characteristics are unique to each individual. The "tones" can be humming, the word "sleep", or shushing, depending on the individual casters.



I suppose you are unfamiliar with linguistics? In your example, the "sounds" "ra", "el", and "oy", would be word elements of a shared language.

There is no shared language.

One says "mmmm", an other says "sleep", and an other says "shhhh".

There is no language with "ra" that they all speak in common.

The magical language of each caster is unique and ultimately incomprehensible.

You're claiming that languages share no common sounds, which is poppycock.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I feel it is worthwhile to simply purchase one book, the 2024 Players Handbook, and start playing a complete game of D&D.

Hopefully, the 2024 Players Handbook really will have every rule necessary to play.

Obviously it is also worthwhile to buy other books as well, to enrich and vary the game.

I mean, for us in 2024, we can since the older materials are still available.

But Combining all three books into one is too much. And I think there is value in having the monster section separated from the player book.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Huh, it seems Max blocked me. Never thought I'd see the day.

 

[Remathilis]

l
Edit: the first time you told me as a player, that my tarrasque can't throw a tree after the poison spraying flying wizard, because they don't have the ability to throw improvised weapons more than 30 ft, beacause it lack an abilitiy in its stat block to do so, you may leave my house and group forever.
Or that my thug may not wear better armor or carry a better melee weapon... Stat blocks are no rules.
Or that my rest variant is nowhere listed in the optional resting rules.
And that you can cleave througg minons by dealing enough damage to bring one from full to zero, even if they are not still at full hp...

That holds true of the PHB. There is no rule saying I can't become proficient in Ukulele nor is there a rule that my magic missiles must be three glowing darts and not three magical birds that divebomb the enemy. The notion that the PHB is sancrosact and the other books are merely suggestions is a silly distinction. They all are equal parts guidelines and rules.

 

[Yaarel]

You're claiming that languages share no common sounds, which is poppycock.

I am saying, they are not speaking the same language. They dont all use the "sound" "ra" in the same way with the same meaning. Some dont have the phonemes "r" or "a" at all. For example, in Norwegian jo means one thing, and in English the similar sound yo means something else.

But for the casters, each ones magical language is unique.


D&D can change the rules for 2024. Then, the "Verbal component" is the Wizard describing the spell effect in any language of the Wizards choice, with the proper inner intention.

So for example, in the spell from Shakespeare, "Bubble, bubble, toil and trouble," the witches are performing a ritual that literally brews turmoil. This spell is in the English language.

But if this is the case in D&D, Wizards would be able to read and understand each others spellbooks, plainly, as long as they share the same language in common.

But D&D doesnt do it this way currently.